Can someone please tell me what sandbagging is? I heard some people discussing it at my last meet, but didn't know exactly what they were talking about. It didn't sound very flattering though by the tone of their voices. Thanks in advance. :banana:
Former Member
At a recent meet, my first masters meet, I just entered what I thought were realistic estimates. I beat most of them except 1 or 2. Also I was not doing the whole pentathalon, since I hate backstroke and did a 1500 free instead of 50 back. So it's not like I was sandbagging to gain an advantage in the pentathalon.
In all future meets I'll use my masters time if I have one for that event.
Sandbagging in swimming is small potatoes, really. In some cases it could actually hinder someone's performance because they don't get to race the faster swimmers. In any event, our final time is the only thing that matters. Beating everyone in your slow heat doesn't affect the final results.
There are other sports where sandbagging actually does affect results. For example, my wife figure skates. In adult skating you compete by both age and by ability level. You need to test to change levels. You can usually count on a couple skaters who really should have tested up to the next level, but stayed at a lower level just to get on the podium.
Wrongly accusing someone of sandbagging is the worst. This past season I would have been accused many times. At the Y Nats I dropped 13 seconds in the 400 IM. The race just felt good and I had an awesome push from the lady in the lane next to me. That meet I had serveral breakthrough swims. I seeded my self within a second of my best time. The 100 free I was seeded with a 1:05 which was my fastest at the time and went a 1:01.2. I just cut my workouts back and rested for the meet, not a full taper.
So I guess if you want to say that someone is sandbagging b/c they are off a few seconds then I guess I would be a sandbagger.
For the most part I try to guess at times on things I have never swam in a meet based on what I do in a practice. When I do swim events that I have swam before I will base my time on how I have been feeling in practice and physically. You can't always go your best. I have not been close to a 1:01 since. Even at Federal Way when I was tapered I was slower b/c I put too much pressure on myself and was very nervous.
So in general, I agree with Tom, don't accuse anyone of sandbagging unless you know for sure they are.
I also agree with those about trying to get rest between races. I would not get upset with anyone that put a no time so they could be in the 1st heat of an event to have rest for another event that they seeded themself correctly. That to me is not about trying to win by alot or get the heat prize, it is about wanting to swim the best they can and get rest.
Guilty - I sandbag whenever I'm going to a meet for the first time in a while and I honestly have no idea what I'll do. But if I start competing regularly, I always enter with my most recent time.
If there was sandbagging etiquette, I'd say it would be understandable for newbies and those who haven't competed in a while - but poor etiquette to habitually sandbag if you compete regularly.
Sandbagging in swimming is small potatoes, really. In some cases it could actually hinder someone's performance because they don't get to race the faster swimmers. In any event, our final time is the only thing that matters. Beating everyone in your slow heat doesn't affect the final results.
There are other sports where sandbagging actually does affect results. For example, my wife figure skates. In adult skating you compete by both age and by ability level. You need to test to change levels. You can usually count on a couple skaters who really should have tested up to the next level, but stayed at a lower level just to get on the podium.
I've never sandbagged. I have guessbagged though, I know I will be faster at a meet that I will in practice so I take a training time and shave it back. Sometimes I still do better. If I have a time or a converted time though, I use that.
My own pet peeve with sandbagging.... if you're ever at a meet that you feel is taking a really long time, you can start by blaming the sandbaggers. IF you sandbag your entry time, then you contribute to making the meet take longer than it should.
-Rick
My own pet peeve with sandbagging.... if you're ever at a meet that you feel is taking a really long time, you can start by blaming the sandbaggers. IF you sandbag your entry time, then you contribute to making the meet take longer than it should.
-Rick
I beg to disagree. Sandbagging, as in meaning you seed yourself slower than your real time, then swimming the heat really fast, does not make the heat or the meet longer. Every heat will take as long as its slowest swimmer. Therefore whether swimmer A swims in heat 1 (slowest to fastest) and finishes in half his posted time or seeds him(or her)self properly and swims in heat 3 and -maybe- finishes second, each heat will still take as long as its slowest participant.
Gamesmanship or not, is another story. This is after all, Masters Swimming, where in all probability, swimmers in any one heat will belong to different age groups (and even genders) and are thus only racing against their own expectations (and times).
I agree with FlyQueen... Practice sandbaggers are the WORST!
i have a regular lane partner who pulls out a pull buoy for sets of 100s or more cause she hates going anaerobic. no legs lessens the lung burn. it used to drive me nuts. here i am sucking air and she's just cruising through the set. but, i finally made peace with her habit when i smoked her in a meet :D.
ahh....the beauty of karma.
I beg to disagree. Sandbagging, as in meaning you seed yourself slower than your real time, then swimming the heat really fast, does not make the heat or the meet longer. Every heat will take as long as its slowest swimmer. Therefore whether swimmer A swims in heat 1 (slowest to fastest) and finishes in half his posted time or seeds him(or her)self properly and swims in heat 3 and -maybe- finishes second, each heat will still take as long as its slowest participant.
But you displace another slow swimmer who should be in heat 1, but has to swim in heat 2, which slows down heat 2.
Take an extreme example to illustrate...
6 lane pool. 1000 freestyle. 12 swimmers entered. The seed times, in order, are:
1. 10:01
2. 10:02
3. 10:03
4. 10:04
5. 10:05
6. 12:01
7. 13:01
8. 13:02
9. 13:03
10. 13:04
11. 13:05
12. 13:06
So when you seed this, you get the bottom 6 (13:01 through 13:06) in heat 1. The top 6 (10;01 through 12:01) in heat 2.
Now, as it turns out, the 7th seeded person (13:01) actually sandbagged the entry time. He actually swims 10:06 for his race. Everyone else had perfect seed times, and swims their exact seed time.
The way the event is seeded:
Heat 1 takes 13:06 (slowest time)
Heat 2 takes 12:01 (slowest time)
Total time: 25:07 (assuming zero break between heats)
Now, if the sandbagger had seeded himself correctly, he would have seeded at 10:06. This would have put him in heat 2, and bumped the 6th place person back into heat 1. If it had been seeded that way:
Heat 1 takes 13:06 (still slowest time)
Heat 2 takes 10:06 (would-be-sandbagger, bumped up)
Total time: 23:12 (saves almost 2 minutes)
So as you can see, the sandbagger didn't make heat 1 and slower. But it pushed a slower person up into heat 2, which slowed heat 2 way down.
This is an obviously extreme example to illustrate the effect. If you have a meet with, say, 200 heats in a day... for every 5 seconds you lose per heat, you add almost 17 minutes to the length of the session.
-Rick
