attention sprinters, have a question on your strength

At a recent masters meet...we had the pleasure of sitting next to Mr.T...who by the way has an effortless looking freestyle. Being more experienced than my newbie counterparts on the team...I was sharing some sage advise about how to swim faster in the 50. "Take longer strokes" I said..."and keep the turnover moving". Needless to say...it dawned on me that this is precisely the intention of swimming fishlike. Any short choppy strokes will invariably result in some form of resistance. TI drills show people how to rotate properly during the stroke...show people how to lengthen the stroke...and focus on good clean swimming. Swimming catch up style is not the intention...althgough it's initially promoted to get folks un-stuck from bad form.... and introduced to their ideal. And I strongly believe in taking long strokes. A low SPL count is a sign of good form...and it can translate to fast times. Uh, oh, I guess I am swimming TI and don't even know it (except for the being low in the water thing which I won't do). But long strokes just feel better to me!! And short, choppy strokes destroy my rhythm completely; I run in to this problem when I am swimming and come upon an ocean depth change from deep to really shallow and have to shorten my stroke to keep from scraping the coral on the bottom. I now don't swim in that area. I have never considered myself a sprinter, except for the 50 and 100 back which were NOT my favorites; I loved the 200 back---perfect! And I am 5'8, but now weigh in the 190s, but even when I was really thin, didn't much enjoy those 50s. So I guess we all just come in different sizes for all of the events!! Donna

power is a factor. benching 200 in 1.7 seconds is better than benching 215 in 2.5 seconds

Did the earrings and jewlery slow him down? Did you ask about an A-Team reunion? Thoughts on the newest Rocky movie? Inquiring minds want to know! No silly...Not that Mr. T ...Mr Tee Eye. And no bling either...just a short john fast skin.

And short, choppy strokes destroy my rhythm completely; I run in to this problem when I am swimming and come upon an ocean depth change from deep to really shallow and have to shorten my stroke to keep from scraping the coral on the bottom. I now don't swim in that area. When I see one of my taller age group swimmers taking short strokes compared to the little guy in the next lane taking longer ones...I note that the shorter one is "swimming taller" in the water. One can be a short swimmer and swim *taller* in the water than someone with considerably more height. (Getting reach has everything to do with staying long.) As soon as one discovers their ideal body line (horizontal)...there's no reason why a swimmer under six feet can't challenge another who's around six and a half. There are many sprinters under six feet feet who can do a 50yard free in 20 seconds. And that's quick.

You'll notice sprinters are generally tall, where as distance swimmers can get away with being a bit shorter. Fort and I break the mold, short sprinters. We'll be signing autographs before our world record 100 m free this summer location: tbd ... we are expecting to go a 51.00 - not just break the record but absolutely smash it ... hitting the wall at the exact same time ... You are way shorter than me, baby sister. Almost two whole inches. I think that long torso gives me the SDK edge though. :rofl: Thankfully, SDKs, unlike SPLs, are not quite as height and arm length dependent. 51.00 sounds about right. I think we can take Smith. He'll have to resort to those itsy bitsy zoomer fins to catch us. Har, har.

Paul I only count strokes to see if I can swim my 25 meters in 10 or less now, 7 strokes for 20 yards, that is count left hand enters and right hand enters as 2 strokes, easy push off the wall with 2 dolphin kicks. I still have trouble pushing off the wall with the alloy knees. Woke up this morning took my blood pressure 124 over 64, resting heart rate 58, I must be getting in shape doing my 1000m a day. I am still having the battle of the bulge 6'3" weight down a little to 250ish, and I am really good looking (my own assesment). I walk 4 miles a day now occasionaly in beach sand. My blood with reduced meds (half) is 5.2 to 6.2. I have not done any time trials but feel my 50m is somewhere near 30 seconds. I cannot wait to get back into a regular sized pool right now swimming in a 20 yard pool. When I get back to Canada I will make an earnest speed trial in a 50m lc pool and a 25m sc pool.

rtodd, A few summary points that I hope won't be controversial but that I hope will be corrected if they are incorrect: A large majority of the swimmers that make your goal times do so with significantly lower SPL than you are currently swimming with. There are a large number of people that are faster than you that are not as strong as you. If, as you say, you have a tendency to drop your elbows there is probably very little else you could work on that would help as much as fixing that. And not dropping your elbows will almost certainly improve your SPL. SPL is a diagnostic test not a primary goal. If you find ways to swim more efficiently your SPL will drop and you will know you are heading in the right direction. If you have any opportunity to get a good coach to look at your stroke and give you feedback, take it, it will be worth going out of your way and paying some bucks for, in terms of speeding up your improvement. A second place option is to get good video and get commentary on that. If you take that approach underwater video from the front and side will be the most useful as it is what is happening under the water that is most important. Video is good in that you can really see where what you think you are doing or what you are trying to do is not what you are actually doing.

At a recent masters meet...we had the pleasure of sitting next to Mr.T...who by the way has an effortless looking freestyle. Being more experienced than my newbie counterparts on the team...I was sharing some sage advise about how to swim faster in the 50. "Take longer strokes" I said..."and keep the turnover moving". Needless to say...it dawned on me that this is precisely the intention of swimming fishlike. Any short choppy strokes will invariably result in some form of resistance. TI drills show people how to rotate properly during the stroke...show people how to lengthen the stroke...and focus on good clean swimming. Swimming catch up style is not the intention...althgough it's initially promoted to get folks un-stuck from bad form.... and introduced to their ideal. Just for stats... I'm a little over six foot two...and manage to take ten/eleven strokes at normal speed in 25 yd pool (and around 14/15 when going all out). My 100 time is a little over 50 seconds at the moment ...which is Ok for an aging hipster. And I strongly believe in taking long strokes. A low SPL count is a sign of good form...and it can translate to fast times.

OK, I have decided from this thread thatmy strength is acceptable and for the time being, my SPL is acceptable at 9-10 per 25yds. So what is left?.......technique, which includes the strength of my kick and how I incorporate it into my stroke. Also strength endurance which is borne out of the seriousness of the training. I know I am lacking in this department just due to the changes I see in my lats the past year. I just don't have the needed muscles fully developed yet. I will work on getting some video analysis. Thanks for all your feedback.

Just for clarity, are your 9-10 SPL counting each hand entry or every time the same hand enters? I got the impression before that you were counting each full cycle rather than each hand which is not the standard way to count SPL. Naturally the two methods create results which differ by a factor of two, making a big difference. If you are counting full cycles (a left and a right hand entry) then your SPL is roughly double Paul's, and would probably improve if you were more efficient (more streamlined, less slipping). Can you hold your 50 target pace for 25? Your 100 target pace for 50? If so, improved endurance will help, if not, you need to improve your stroke first.