We now have just over a month before the open World Champs at Melbourne. What will we see there, more records? I believe that this is a 'statement' champs, not least of which the Aussies in the wake of the retirement of Ian Thorpe. Will the Chinese unveil some unknown superstars? Kitajima, according to the Swimming World website feels that he is returning to form, can he challenge Hansen (& how many little dolphin kicks he hide in his dive?).
What do you see on the horizon? Time to venture some predictions.
I say the we will see Park from Korea start to push Grant Hackett, with a view to getting in his head for 2008. Will Phelps shock and awe his opponents?
Let's hear from you...
Former Member
I think both Peirsols will have a great meet. posted by FlyQueen
That comes as a real shock to me coming from you Heather...LOL!! :dedhorse: :thhbbb:
Newmastersswimmer :banana: :banana:
How about Cullen Jones?
I'm stoked to see what Cullen does! He has so much potential, it'll be awesome to see how he reacts to competition on a big scale.
Hoff and Myers in the 200 IM is gonna be a great race too.
And as always I can't wait to see what Michael and Ian will do....their my boys :)
It'll be fun to see if Zeigler and Peirsol can close in a little more on Janet Evans record in the 1650.
everyone in the heat dropped .3. that doesn't happen
Warren:
When you say everyone in the heat dropped .3 is a little confusing. Alex Popov was the only person swimming from my understanding. Now if you read the link that I provided, you will see that others have dropped beyond .3 in time trials. In 1981, William Paulus did a time of :53.81 to break the World Record in the 100 meter Fly that was set by Par Arvidsson of :54.15 set in 1980 in a time trail after the meet was over. In that same meet he did a :54.34 to win the individual event but was .53 from the time trial World Record. When swimming alone, yes I agree that a time trial swim will be faster with all of things discussed on the thread I linked. In the 50, especially with the start that can make up for a lot of time. For instance at the 2000 Olympics, both Anthony Erving and Gary Hall JR. had .14 and .10 advantages in the Reaction Times from the blocks on Alex Popov and Hoggie and I believe this helped the pair to the Gold Medal stand.
In 2003, a year before the Olympics, Popov went :21.99 and :21.91 at the 2003 World Championships in Spain. There is nothing that could not convince me that he could not go .28 seconds faster with a good start and swimming in an empty pool. Empty pool meaning no swimmers and not empty water. That last statement was a quote from Gary Hall about Popov getting the World Record in an empty pool. I would have to agree with Fly Queen that I think his swim is legitimate and that the Russian Swimming Federation did not do any wrong doing and he should get credit and have the World Record until someone comes along and swims faster than :21.63 and that can be done as of now either in a Meet or a Time Trial.
In 1989, Tom Jager had the Word Record of :22.12 and set that at the Pan Pac meet in Tokyo, Japan. In the Nashville swims against only one other swimmer, one or two lanes apart, very much like a time trial setting, he went :21.81 in his final swim to reduce the World Record by .31 seconds, which is very similar to what Popov did in his reduction in time. The only difference is that Matt Biondi was a couple of lanes over in there final TV swim match and went :21.85 to also break the old World Record. This was the only time in swimming history up to this point that two people broke the :22.00 barrier. At the 1992 Olympics, Alex Popov was the first swimmer to break the :22.00 barrier in a competitive meet going :21.91 and it would be 8 years before any swimmer would do that again. Shortly after Popov set the World Record in June of 2000, both Gary Hall Jr. and Anthony Erving went :21.76 and :21.80 at the 2000 Olympic Trials to be the only swimmers at that point to go under the :22.00 barrier. In the 2000 Olympics in the tied Gold Medal swim both swimmers swam a :21.98 for the win, which was .22 and .18 from the previous swims. So its realistic to have a variance of .30 and not be suspect.
Beth:
This has always been a controversial issue dating back to probably 1984 when Peter Williams broke the World Record in the 50 Meter Free swimming all alone. This has also been a controversial issue back in the 1950's and 1960's when the USA Olympic Team would have time trial swims to determine who would make up the Relays for the Olympics. Today that is not done but the Coaches set the critera in advance or so we are told and there is a lot of disagreements with how this is done. Topic for past and future threads.
From my understanding of reading the FINA Rules, you can swim alone or with as many people as you want. You must follow all of the rules including that 12.4, so that everyone that wants to swim a time trial, has the ability to. No Swimming Federation has come forward to challenge this and get it changed. So it looks like Time Trial World Records is here to stay. Also, you have to remember that USA Swimming allows this and there were attempts besides Tara Kirk at Austin last year at the American SCY Championships. So if we as a Federation allow it here, I don't think it will change no matter how many people complain.
I really like Gary Hall Jr., however consider the source. Obviously he is more likely to be upset or suspicious about the time than someone else. Look at Amanda Weir this year in the 100 she dropped considerable time from her pervious best to grab a new American record. It can happen. Popov has certainly proven he is one of the best sprinters of all time, it's not like a Brita Steffen came out of no where to get a WR.
That all being said, Gary has certainly been able to step up when it counts and beat those guys. I'd love to see him on the Beijing team, too.
quote from gary hall jr
"Popov swam his time in a time trial. I think that there were two other swimmers in the pool. It was at the Olympic trials meet for 2000. I have had a few people tell me that the time wasn't legitimate, the other swimmers times were .3 faster than they had ever been before or since, Popov's time being .3 faster too. I don't know how to respond to that. Roland proved that a 21.6 is possible, there is no disputing that he went that time. (shrug). I'll beat either one of them if they step up on the blocks next to me. I'll go the time it takes to win."
Sounds like the clock started .3 late.
I don't want cullen jones to break the american record in the 50 free but I wouldn't mind schoeman going 21.63 and beating the fastest time in disorganized competition to erase popov from the books.
Warren:
What do you mean by a disorganized competition? He set that record in the evening session of the Russian Olympic Trials on 6-16-2000 in Moscow. Now if you mean that he did it in a special time trial before the evening session finals, then yes it was not in the finals of the 50 meter Free, but he did meet all the standards set forth by FINA is SW Rules Sections 11, 12, and 13. He specifically followed Rule 12.4 because that is key for time trial World Records to count. There have been many competitons where swimmers in both Swimming and Masters have not followed this and been denied a World Record. As long as FINA allows this, then I don't see a problem with it. If Federations don't like it, then they must petition FINA to change it.
In the last two years, both Tara Kirk and Ian Crocker have gotten records in time trials. Crocker's was a World Record in the 50 Fly and Tara Kirk's was an American Record in the 200 Yard *** and both records were performed University of Texas pool in Austin, which is the site of the 2008 USMS SC Nationals. I am going to provide a link to this discussion we had about a year ago and Tom Jager response to the breaking of the record.
forums.usms.org/showthread.php
www.fina.org/.../swimming.phpwww.swimmingworldmagazine.com/.../1528.asp
Are you actually questioning Popov? He is the man. I know he and Gary Hall Jr don't get along, but Popov was amazing. He is a legend, and I do not doubt that record for a second.
