I am interested in knowing what swimming theory you use and why you use it. I hear much about Total Immersion and not just from this forum. I hear much about swimming high on the water slightly looking forward, and I hear much about people developing their own swimming theory best suited for them but using guidelines that help them maintain a technical stroke.
Given all these different theories, it is no wonder that swimmers new to the sport are confused as to whom to listen to.
I borrowed the TI book from a friend a year or so ago, and found several things I agreed with, but more that I didn’t. I am not close-minded, I just cannot find a reason to swim so low in the water with the head looking down. The rolling of the shoulders really concerned me and the fact that so much of the body is low-parallel to the water, this has to increase drag, especially on the shoulders. One thing I will say is most people who swim using TI have beautiful strokes. But, and there is a but, they just don’t swim fast. Maybe I have just been so isolated here on this island that I have not heard of any, but are there any Olympians using TI? Or, will the young-uns using it be our next generation?
There is a USMS club in Fort Worth who advocated TI. Sadly, now they are deconstructing all those methods because no matter what the workout and intensity, their swimmers’ speeds could never develop. I get to speak to many triathlete swimmers here every March. The Elite (professional) swimmers swim high on top of the water looking forward and they use hip rotation, not shoulder rolling. Many of the age-groupers in this event just don’t understand why they are not swimming faster using TI. Now, we all know that most of the triathletes who were swimmers first, and runners and bikers second, always fare better in the swim portion.
I have said this before and I will say it again, there is more than one way to swim. I swim higher on top of the water looking forward, about a yard or two and use hip rotation. The reason for this is picture a person throwing a rock that skims the lake. The rock is flying on top of the water and not in it, so it moves much faster until its momentum ceases. Now, I know people are not rocks, but the principle is founded. Swimming on top of the water generates power and the swimmer can truly feel it. I swim slightly “planed” outward and upward and skim over the water, not in it.
Nowadays, because I am older and carry more weight, I swim not quite as high on the water and this has evolved over the last ten years or so. So even though I started out swimming “high” on the water looking forward, my stroke has become my own personal one that suits me very well. I also want to mention that I am referring to only freestyle here even though with all of my backstroke days, I, again, swam rather “planed” upward because I could get more rotation on top of the water rather than “in” the water.
I am not trying to cause a brou-ha-ha. I am just curious about the swimming theories and why people select them. And after swimming with any specific theory, are you happy with it?
Donna
Former Member
Strength Training is indeed critical. An article published in Swimming Technique a long time ago was called "Strength Training Tips for Swimmers and Coaches". The article has some good points and I'd like to stress that the training opposite muscle groups encourages flexibility and a full-range of muscle movement. So, balanced strength gains are a great idea. Good luck.
just a few thoughts on head position.
I think where you are swimming matters. Swimming head forward in a pool seems to drop my hips a little, in the pool I concetrate on getting my head a little more striaght down but in the ocean the salt helps buoy me up and its eaier to swim head forward.
In the ocean I'm also looking forward to see what I'm goign to swim into. I wonder if either position has an impact on the shoudlers, I would think it would have more to do with having the shoulder always floow the body in either position. THat is using body rotation to clear the water rather than levering the body over with the shoulder..
I'm confessing, I wrote the article "Strength training Tips for Coaches and Swimmers" that appeared in Swimming Technique about twenty years ago. Something I didn't talk about in the article were EVF exercises.
Anyone who wants some pictures of a few EVF exercises please email me and I'll download them to you. If you're a swimmer or a coach, beginner or elite, EVF exercises must be on your plate. If they're already on your plate, add more.
I had a reply that said one of the swimmers "knew what she was doing" as far as EVF was concerned and this tid-bit will show you how wrong that assumption can be. Driving Josh Davis from the airport to somewhere?, - he told me that he spends conscious time working on his EVF and when he loses it, he'll work hard for weeks to get it back. EVF isn't new but it's not emphasized nearly enough and knowing how to effectively train to improve it, isn't easy.
Good luck and keep in touch, Coach T.
Coach T: Awesome video clips. Thanks!
Now, I have a TI comment that shouldn't be that controversial. I know some people love TI and other don't. I personally think TI is great for beginner to intermediate swimmers. But once you get beyond basic stroke mechanics, you've got to do some quality sets and endurance for maximum speed (depending on your target distance). Most triathletes I know that are mesmerized with TI have no speed. They think it's a quick fix, but it doesn't fix their swim leg all that much. They do look prettier in the pool.
Technique is obviously important. My problem with TI is the "all or nothing" "take it or leave it" mindset. There has to be more than one way to swim fast or with "great pleasure." I'm also not real crazy about phrases like "mindful swimming," "examined swimming," or "effortless swimming." You gotta think about things. But what about busting your ass in a tough workout or getting a massive endorphin rush? And what's the harm in blazing through a set even though your technique may erode a bit at the end? So what if one forgets to breath bilaterally or count strokes on the final lap?
I also don't think TI is "revolutionary." The debate about technique vs. volume has been ongoing for years. TI just takes the technique side of things and dresses it up with a "zen" mindset. I think I read somewhere in a thread that maybe TI was a "set" mind instead of a "mindset."
Does TI have any application to open water swimming? I'm assuming it does since Terry is swimming open water. But does not making a single splash matter when you're battling monster waves?
I personally think TI is great for beginner to intermediate swimmers. But once you get beyond basic stroke mechanics, you've got to do some quality sets and endurance for maximum speed (depending on your target distance).
Technique is obviously important. My problem with TI is the "all or nothing" "take it or leave it" mindset. There has to be more than one way to swim fast or with "great pleasure." QUOTE]
I did a set last week (one often repeated with my masters group)
5x 100 on 1:20
5x 100 on 1:15
5x 100 on 1:10
The "TI discipline" I imposed on the set is this: 1st round held 1:13's at 13spl, 2nd round held 1:10's at 14spl, 3rd round held 1:08's for four 1:09 on the last. This is the first time ever I have made this set at these intervals. I state this to demonstrate that TI certainly does not suggest the idea that "basic stroke mechanics" are "the" long term goal, but rather a place to begin. (though, there is nothing wrong if your long term goal is to swim a perfect 10 strokes, or if your goal is to have no goal...wow thats really zen)Good technique can be applied to any set,any speed and any distance.
LBJ: You're not a "loon," you're a racoon.
Actually, that raccoon is "Fred." Fred and two of his buddies live in our lower woods and raid the birdfeeders for sunflower seeds and steal the suet baskets if I don't lock them. Like most raccoons, he's probably a strong, albeit a slow, swimmer - like me.
-LBJ
I agree with that statement. But let me ask you--at the end of that set, how did you feel? Be honest.
honestly, i felt elated. i had trouble sleeping that night i was so jazzed.
physically, after a couple of hundred recovery yards i felt great!
I cannot keep that book updated simply because it's not worth my time to do so. I make 7 cents on each one sold Then why not sell it 14 bucks and make a dollar 7 cents instead?
See. This is something I never quite understood. Every author is complaining about making too few cents on retail book sales, why not increase the price of all books by 1 buck, so you authors can finally put some butter on your bread?
How on earth can an author only make 7cent on a book he wrote anyway. Publishers are the worst thieves.
Write a new one and please, sell it through your website only. You don't need them anymore.
These responses are just truly amazing and worth so much to all of us. I have been an EVF swimmer my entire life and to make it easier on my shoulders, I swim a little higher in the water so I can get on top of that motion.
I also believe in weight training, how could one not? And I believe in aerobic and anaerobic sets for our two systems need to experience it in order to train our systems for when this must occur during a swim. They aid us aerobically and lower our heartrates overall, as well as train ourselves that we can throw in sprints during open water swims and go into our recovery race pace with no problems whatsoever.
And I also believe in swimming aids such as fins and pull buoys. Fins helped to develop my hamstring strength, stretch my ankles, and keep my body in proper body position during intense kicking sets. Hand paddles can be more suspect as many people may use the bigger ones and the torque on the shoulder area can be a big problem for many. I use the smaller ones.
Maybe there are several swimming theories for different types of swimming; I really don't know. But I will tell you this from my experience: Swimming low in the water during high ocean wave action can present great stress to that particular swimmer. If an open water swimmer is swimming higher in the water, it is easier to ride a wave and skip a breath than if you are low. I don't even count sighting and navigation as an issue at all here, it is the ability to see and feel the wave is coming, stay high, and realize what must be done at that last moment. If a swimmer is low in the water, the ability to do this decreases.
But I will now speak of open water swimming since this is what I do. When I do the one mile swim here in the triathlon every March, I outswim every single person who uses TI. I always feel bad for them because most of them are swimming 32-40 minute miles which is very slow. And they have this older fat woman who swims the mile in 22 minutes and they don't understand why. The only difference I can think of is I don't swim low, I swim high in the water. Their fitness level probably supersedes mine. Now having said that, I do not know if they are just a poor swimmer, do not work on swimming aerobic/anerobic sets, or a combination thereof. No one will truly know for sure if they are not working on their swimming as much as their biking and running.
But the most sad thing of all is they were under the impression that TI would be the quick fix. I always tell them there is no quick fix in anything; it takes months/years/decades to develop a stroke that will help them with speed.
What has bothered me is after the swim, they come up to me and want to know how I swim that kind of time because of how I "look." I tell them it is 40 years of swimming high in the water and EVF and the fact that I look at that 1,760 yards as 400s, not a mile. And that I train aerobically and a whole lot anaerobically. There is great, great benefit in the conditioning that training these two systems of our bodies will bring to us.
I truly am not knocking TI, I truly am not, but I have heard much from swimmers who were promised from their TI coaches that this was a fix-all. I am not sure there is such a thing and it hurts me to think people may be passing a swimming theory off as a quick fix.
The only way I learned to swim well was by doing it for YEARS, not months nor weeks with coaches who praised me, yelled at me, challenged me, and rewarded me. But the thing that really got my attention was when I, I knew I was doing it correctly because I could feel it; I didn't need anyone to tell me I was doing it right. And this comes with experience.
I got my first charity donation tonight from a company here in Roatan, not the States, for my 18 mile swim coming up in 2008. It was a small donation, only $1,000, but it will go toward one of the three charities I will be swimming the Roatan-Utila channel for. I am elated that people think this old lady can do such a thing.
Joke: now if my husband just won't "chum" off the back of the boat for sharks for an insurance policy :rofl:
Donna
