I am interested in knowing what swimming theory you use and why you use it. I hear much about Total Immersion and not just from this forum. I hear much about swimming high on the water slightly looking forward, and I hear much about people developing their own swimming theory best suited for them but using guidelines that help them maintain a technical stroke.
Given all these different theories, it is no wonder that swimmers new to the sport are confused as to whom to listen to.
I borrowed the TI book from a friend a year or so ago, and found several things I agreed with, but more that I didn’t. I am not close-minded, I just cannot find a reason to swim so low in the water with the head looking down. The rolling of the shoulders really concerned me and the fact that so much of the body is low-parallel to the water, this has to increase drag, especially on the shoulders. One thing I will say is most people who swim using TI have beautiful strokes. But, and there is a but, they just don’t swim fast. Maybe I have just been so isolated here on this island that I have not heard of any, but are there any Olympians using TI? Or, will the young-uns using it be our next generation?
There is a USMS club in Fort Worth who advocated TI. Sadly, now they are deconstructing all those methods because no matter what the workout and intensity, their swimmers’ speeds could never develop. I get to speak to many triathlete swimmers here every March. The Elite (professional) swimmers swim high on top of the water looking forward and they use hip rotation, not shoulder rolling. Many of the age-groupers in this event just don’t understand why they are not swimming faster using TI. Now, we all know that most of the triathletes who were swimmers first, and runners and bikers second, always fare better in the swim portion.
I have said this before and I will say it again, there is more than one way to swim. I swim higher on top of the water looking forward, about a yard or two and use hip rotation. The reason for this is picture a person throwing a rock that skims the lake. The rock is flying on top of the water and not in it, so it moves much faster until its momentum ceases. Now, I know people are not rocks, but the principle is founded. Swimming on top of the water generates power and the swimmer can truly feel it. I swim slightly “planed” outward and upward and skim over the water, not in it.
Nowadays, because I am older and carry more weight, I swim not quite as high on the water and this has evolved over the last ten years or so. So even though I started out swimming “high” on the water looking forward, my stroke has become my own personal one that suits me very well. I also want to mention that I am referring to only freestyle here even though with all of my backstroke days, I, again, swam rather “planed” upward because I could get more rotation on top of the water rather than “in” the water.
I am not trying to cause a brou-ha-ha. I am just curious about the swimming theories and why people select them. And after swimming with any specific theory, are you happy with it?
Donna
Former Member
But not this weekend. This weekend I am going to the Tom Dolan meet at GMU where I will watch some amazing age groupers and a couple masters swimmers. (Go Wally!!! :woot: ) Last year, Kate Zeigler broke Janet Evan's record in, I think, the 800 free at this meet. I will be watching to see who has the best technique and enjoying the close races. I will even get to watch my flying/breaststroking/IM-ing daughter in action and I don't have to officiate! So I will not have a lot of time to be posting this weekend. I need a rest.:D.
Fortress, I hope your daughter beats the pants off you in the 50 fly.:lolup:
I believe there is a verse in the Christian bible to the effect that "Heaven shall rejoice more at the repentence of one sinner than in the deliverance of all the righteous." Or something to that effect.
Now we just have to get you into open water races as well.
-LBJ
LBJ: You're pretty good at swooping in like Batman too.
She has informed me, not so civily, that she will. But she ain't got me in backstroke yet Batman. :rofl:
I see that almost no one has got you in the 50 back Fortress, but I think there are a few of us who will be kicking your butt in the pretty blue stuff ... and in breaststroke (not me of course).
If only you knew how much time I have spent answering those questions, only to have the same questions crop up again and again and again, regardless.
I honestly don't have a problem with being challenged on any statement. If it's not capable of being defended or substantiated, I can't in good faith continue to make it. It's the frequent and persistent mischaracterizing of what we advocate that gets frustrating.
While I am unreluctant to admit that my goal is one that would in most cases be grounds for diagnosis of a grandiosity complex -- to change the world, at least the way the world practices and teaches swimming -- I feel unbelievably fortunate that after 34 years of coaching I can still wake up every morning passionate about what I do.
Terry:
Do not spend time on defending yourself. Let your results speak for themselves. Defending yourself with insults is never the best answer. (I know you said some stuff about objectivity, but to quote KNelson, I'm not "buying" that you are strictly "objective" and rational after reading some of your posts.) I may be wrong (don't tell me if I am), but I also think that most people just don't like being called "delusional." Now, everyone would do best to heed Miss Manner's advice, and ignore insults. But she's kinda girly. So here's my take.
I actually think it's fine to have a grandiosity complex. Most people in this world are sitting on their you-know-what doing nothing. Not only do they not have meaningful goals, they have no goals whatsoever beyond their immediate trivials need. (Like right now, I'm tired and I'm pretty sure my youngest is going to wake me up again with her cold and that will piss me off.) But the best way to achieve those goals is to make people think that you are great. You've already got a good platform; you might just need an attitude adjustment on this forum.
For example, from the threads I've perused, you're rocking with the newbies and the intermediates. You're their idol. You are changing their world and they love you. Mission accomplished. Where you're taking it on the chin is with the masters swimmer who were former age group stars. They just don't want to be told that their shoulder injuries can only and inevitably be caused by awful technique or that TI is the only way to swim fast. So maybe it would behoove (I hated when my father used this word) you to listen up a bit. Most of these feisty masters (women mostly, it seems, where are the men? are they less feisty than the women?) seem to be nationally and/or world ranked or former Olympians from what I've read or researched or heard via PM. Do you really have to rag on them? Don't their results speak for themselves too? I actually think most of them were trying to agree with you on the technique stuff. But you wouldn't give them even a little "mollification." Dude, where are your people skills? This works well with women. Sorry gals, although I will take mollification too, especially if I'm sick.
Look, go forth and conquer. Like I said somewhere before, I don't remember where, no need for kids to get injured. I already do too much driving. I don't want to drive to PT or ART or massage therapists. It's bad enough kids are demanding fastskins at such a young age. (I'm drawing the line on wesuits. If it isn't below 70 degrees, go swim in the cold water. You'll warm up fast and not waste time transitioning.) But you better co-opt everyone if you want world change. And be willing to take your licks too. It ain't easy being the top dog, particularly if you're going to say you're "revolutionary." That's a bit of a stretch. Maybe you should just say you're the top technique guy and leave it at that. Or maybe now with your new book, which hopefully will contain some heart stopping, make you fast "TI workouts" you can be the technique plus speed guy. All I purport to know is this:
Greatness + Modesty + Results + Proper Maketing = World Change
After all that has been written, believe it or not, I still have questions about the use of TI. And please correct me if I am wrong:
TI swimmers swim more low in the water, or downhill
TI swimmers do not endorse swim aids
TI swimmers do not utilize high-intensity training
I believe the final point is incorrect. My impression is that a TI coach probably would not advocate high-intensity training for a raw beginner, but Terry's posts here seem to advocate a lot of race pace work, for distances that you can hold form for, once you have ingrained your technique. Indeed he has talked about approaching demanding sets and working on ways to maintain form as he approaches his limits.
On the first point, I have seen swimmers that swam very low in the water competing at the international level as well as people who swim quite high in the water, this leads me to believe that this is a matter of style rather than one approach or the other being "correct".
Lastly, I think it is extremely difficult if not impossible to give advice that applies to everyone, from raw beginner to international competitor, and that it is too easy to take advice that a coach gives one swimmer in one context and criticize that advice as not applying to another swimmer in another context. It makes perfect sense to tell a raw beginner to concentrate on technique while telling an accomplished competitor that they need to work on race pace work.
I do think that it is unfortunate that there are a lot of swimmers out there who are doing nothing but "super-slow" swimming that think they are following TI principles. I don't know what the solution to that is.
Again, just my :2cents:
