I wanted to ask a question - just out of curiosity.
I had a too strenuous training regime a couple of weeks ago and I ended up a bit overtrained. I suffered then from chronic exhaustion and my results became much poorer. All improvement that I had made during the past three months was gone. I started to swim 50m fc at terrifying time of 41-43 secs, though I had already been able to do the same in 38 secs for 50m (not great, I know, but my swimming career is yet rather short).
I decided to have a rest. I was going to the pool only two - three times a week, decreased the volume to 1500-2000 and abandoned any demanding tasks. Just leisure swimming - technique and turns.
After about 10-12 days I was feeling great. No sign of exhaustion. In fact the fatigue disappeared already after about three days of rest.
But then, whenever I tried to experiment with speed and swim one or two 50s or 100s I found my results still as poor as at the time when my exhaustion reached its peak. I could not understand why my body does not want to stand a heavier effort even though my subjective symptoms of overtraining (i.e. fatigue etc) are no longer felt.
Now I am back in form - even did my pb at 50m :) (probably because I focussed so much on technique during the past three weeks).
Still I am very curious why it was so hard to me to swim faster, even though I did not feel any chronic exhaustion any longer? Is it possible that the effects of the overtraining last still longer than you subjectively experience them?
It wasn't quite that much, closer to 80-100. I did 2 a days and took every other Sunday off. Looking back, it wasn't very smart.
Betcha got that "runner's knee." Every other Sunday off is not exactly quality rest. Runners are even more compulsive than swimmers, I find. If you get "swimmer's shoulder" now, you will be in big trouble! My knees are surprisingly trouble free (probably cuz I'm not a breaststroker.) It's my loose ankles that cause problems for me in running. Good for swimming, bad for running. Both are great sports.
Back on topic, I have felt a bit of "overtrained" when I'm doing running and swimming and weights, but I think it's just hard training and not "overtraining" -- to date. I was just like Beth -- mega burned out from mega yardage in college.
Hi
My question is to Islandsox and swimr4life:
From what I read in your messages I infer (but I am not sure if I am right) that you normally overtrain during the season and then taper to get back to form before competition. I do not know if I understood you well, of course. Is it an ordinary course of affairs, a regular scheme of the training cycle, that one overtrains and than tapers? I thought that overtraining is something undesirable and that you must be careful to avoid it.
As to the problem of overreaching and overtraining - how can I know where the boarder is? Not that difficult, especially for swimmers. You generally know very well what you're worth on certain type of sets, or certain tests.
Few days off, or a net decrease in overall density (intensity * volume) will generally be enough to get rid of overreaching. After this period, you can swim normally again (testing wise).
With overtraining, if you can get your feelings and performance level back within a month, you can count yourself lucky. It means that you were not *that* overtrained. Deep overtraining, for elite athletes, where nothing works ok in their life anymore, sports, sleep, feeding, sexual life, this type of state will last for months.
I began an overtraining loop once, I was lucky as it only lasted 6 weeks. That was a while ago. But what I do remember, was two incredibly bad things : not being able to swim long sets off 1:30 anymore. And not being able to hold an erection for 6 weeks in a row. (did I really wrote that?)
Is it an ordinary course of affairs, a regular scheme of the training cycle, that one overtrains and than tapers? I thought that overtraining is something undesirable and that you must be careful to avoid it.
We need to be careful with what terms we use. Just because a swimmer needs to taper doesn't mean they have "overtrained" as such. Strictly speaking, the term "overtraining" could be argued to only cover the case where the swimmer has sent their body into a catabolic state and is breaking down their muscle tissue rather than building it up. A swimmer who does this will become detrained, and even with sufficient rest will not perform as well as they did previously, because they have reversed their previous training adaptation by losing muscle tissue.
What is very different to this is slowing down due to not being fully recovered each time you swim. In my case, for example, I only swim at my best in training if I haven't trained the day before. But if I always did this I would only train 3.5 times per week. I know from experience that if I train 4 times a week, my long term improvement is better than if I train 3 times a week, even though I will be tired for one of those sessions each week. And if I train 5 times a week, I will only have two of these sessions where I am fresh from a day's rest before the training, but my long term improvement will be even better.
Here's one way to look at it. Suppose each training session takes 30 hours to recover from. If I train two consecutive days, I will not be fully recovered because only 24 hours have elapsed, so I have a "debt" of 6 hours of recovery at that point. But after my next session my total debt is still only 36 hours of recovery required, so I will still be fully recovered after a day of complete rest before my next training session. Even if I train 3 consecutive days, my debt after each session will be 30 hours, then 36 hours, then 42 hours, so I can still fully recover with one day's complete rest before a further session. In theory, if my recovery from each session takes 30 hours, I would optimise my training by doing 5.6 sessions per week.
But then what I've said above, having periods of training where you don't fully recover followed by periods when you do recover, can be applied over even longer timescales, and this is what macro training cycles are about. So yes, I would say it is normal to have periods where you don't allow for complete recovery, but also periods where you do fully recover. Indeed I would say it is essential to train this way because most of us are limited to training at specific times of day, so can't simply train every 30 hours, or whatever our personal recovery period is.
I thought that overtraining is something undesirable and that you must be careful to avoid it. the process of carrying some fatigue over and over without recoverying from it is called "overreaching". That is a healthy process. Overtraining is a state that shares some similarities with nervous system breakdown. Typically, it takes place over several months, and of course, that isn't healty.
Hi Lindsay,
Your posed a very good question about overtraining. I will say this about my training for the LC Nationals. Earlier that year is when I had my last shoulder surgery. After all the PT and downtime, I had to make a decision to try to get into good swimming condition in a small amount of time. I believe I had about 3 months total. I knew I could "pass" on the Nationals or go for it. I chose to go for it, and I knew I had to intensify my training to get to where I wanted to be. I do believe, in my case, I did overtrain for this one swim event. The fatigue was significant. Normally, I do not do this.
So now with this new question I am wondering how much of a taper I really should do when I can swim/train for months on end? It may have been a one-time long-needed taper. But now I am 58 not 40-something so the question of tapering is still one I have to figure out. Especially now since I am aiming toward an 18 mile swim in a year & a half.:shakeshead: Right now, I haven't a clue as to the taper needed for that one. I will probably pose this question as the swim date gets closer.
Donna
I am aiming toward an 18 mile swim in a year & a half.:shakeshead: Donna
So I wish you good lack :)
NotVeryFast - nice to see you! Thanks for the answer.
As to the problem of overreaching and overtraining - how can I know where the boarder is? How should one plan one's training shedules wisely enough not to cross that line? Are there any signals from the body warning you in case you went too far?
I just want to avoid my previous mistake which costed me a bit. I will not manage to do it unless I learn how far I can go. I would like to adapt my body to big effort during the next season but I must necessarily know how not to overdo.
Is there a book that has this information in it? Please share more info! This would be very relevant and helpful to all of us!:agree:
Talk to SolarEnergy about this. He is on his way to becoming a "Bannister expert."
-LBJ
I began an overtraining loop once, I was lucky as it only lasted 6 weeks.
That was a while ago. But what I do remember, was two incredibly bad things
: not being able to swim long sets off 1:30 anymore.
And not being able to hold an erection for 6 weeks in a row. (did I really wrote that?)
I don't know why anyone would want to hold one for 6 weeks!
Wouldn't that kinda get in the way?
Sorry, could not help myself...:blush:
