Suggestions on Tapering for LD Ocean Swim

I think it's helpful to distinguish between the training needed to be a "marathon champion" and that to be a "marathon finisher" a distinction very familiar to those who train for running marathons. I definitely agree with that. In fact, I was comming back to specify that the difference between the (relatively low) mileage some have reported to do in preparation to marathons compared to the (relatively high) mileage I have witness over the years, is partly due to the average swimming speed. In a University, as you know, typical training regiment involve at least 15 hrs of training a week. That's typical of a sprinter. It can easily go over 20hrs for a LD athlete. Now these guys don't swim slower than 20min/1500 in practice. They typically book 4-5k/hr. 15hr (that's the bare minimum) x 4-5k = 60-75k per week. These guys don't really practice their kick all that much, and virtually no drills (they have at least 15years of swimming experience under the belt). Of course, 20 hours at 4k per hour = 80k, which is the average weekly mileage for these guys. Thanks for having brought this distinction Terry, and sorry for having shed confusion on the thread.

Max Hurley the 24 hour cyclist told me never go faster in training then you intend to swim your race. I did notalways foolow this and if I were going to do a solo swim this is what I would do, Adious for at least a five days, I am packing up the mohome yoday and then tommorrow we take off for our 3200 mile trip to Melaque Mexico.

Sufficient recovery during taper is a key for all levels of swimming.... (50 free to the mile or further). Might I suggest throwing in some massage therapy the last 10 days of your taper to help recover. Taper is an art AND a science. Know your body and don't be afraid to rest a little more the last 10 days. If you are old like me, it takes a while to rebound and feel sharp again. Remember..... if you rest too little, you won't be in the race from the beginning, and you won't be able to finish. If you rest too much, you'll feel great in the beginning and die at the end. If I were going to make mistake on a taper, I think I would chose the latter. John Smith

This theory may sound new, but in fact it's not. Work from Professor Eric Banister on TRIMP have been confirming this principle since early '90s if I'm not mistaken. By nov.23d of this year, I start a process with one of Dr. Banister collegue, namely Dr. Jim Carter, at the end of which an article will be written on this particular topic. I had an aquaintance with Dr. Banister (then of Simon Frasier U.) back during my Olympic Committee days. Really nice man and very pragmatic. I still use a modified TRIMP method of tracking my training. I'd love to see your article when you are done, even though my coaching days are over. -LBJ

I had an aquaintance with Dr. Banister (then of Simon Frasier U.) back during my Olympic Committee days. Really nice man and very pragmatic. I still use a modified TRIMP method of tracking my training. I'd love to see your article when you are done, even though my coaching days are over. -LBJ I'll provide you with a link. I'll make sure that this specific topic (different tapers for different duration) is thouroughly covered. I'll pm you right away to give you some news about Professor Banister. I'm afraid the news aren't that great.

Evil One, Yes, the 50s are wonderful races, but I have have tried my hand at an outdoor lake swim once before. Perhaps we should focus on our outdoor distance talents next summer. Wingshadow Horsetooth Resevoir - Current 2.4 Mile records: Fastest Male(non-wetsuit): Patrick Dideum, 0:49:34 (2004) Fastest Male(wetsuit): John Smith, 0:46:41 (2003) Fastest Female(non-wetsuit) Dianne Gleason 00:53:45 (2006) Fastest Female(wetsuit): Sara Skoff, 0:49:34 (2004) John Smith

Evil One, Yes, the 50s are wonderful races, but I have have tried my hand at an outdoor lake swim once before. Perhaps we should focus on our outdoor distance talents next summer. Wingshadow Horsetooth Resevoir - Current 2.4 Mile records: Fastest Male(non-wetsuit): Patrick Dideum, 0:49:34 (2004) Fastest Male(wetsuit): John Smith, 0:46:41 (2003) Fastest Female(non-wetsuit) Dianne Gleason 00:53:45 (2006) Fastest Female(wetsuit): Sara Skoff, 0:49:34 (2004) John Smith The taper protocol in preparation for a swim marathon is closer than that of an Ironman Triathlon, or that of a cycling stage race. In fact, the latter has been under heavy investigation lately. Dr. Andrew Coggan as you may know has came up with a way to use a robust math model to monitor and control the 3 main components of performance : - Work Capacity (Named Chronical Training Load) - Accute Fatigue (Named Accute Training Load) - Freshness (Name Training Balance Score) www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/.../performancemanagerscience.asp The analysis of data gathered over several months, from multiple riders have clearly shown that Work Capacity (as opposed to freshness) is the number one fitness component to preserve in preparation to a extra-long event. Freshness seems to be more appropriate for shorter events. But raising freshness as you know, involves loosing considerable amount of work capacity (as a result of a volume drop). This theory may sound new, but in fact it's not. Work from Professor Eric Banister on TRIMP have been confirming this principle since early '90s if I'm not mistaken. By nov.23d of this year, I start a process with one of Dr. Banister collegue, namely Dr. Jim Carter, at the end of which an article will be written on this particular topic.

After reading this thread, I don't think even aspiring dictator Leonard Jansen can get me to swim in the open water....;)

Donna: I think there is a lake near me... Oh yes, it's in Reston. I think it's where all area triathletes go to do their annual lake swim. I can't go do that swim without my son the long distance swimmer and triathlete kicking my butt along with other friends. So I stand and cheer. Seriously, though, I wasn't just a sprinter in the old days... and I do scuba dive!

Thank you all for the advice and suggestions pertaining to both training yardage and tapering. I do want to say to Solar that the vinegar thing does NOT WORK for jellyfish/sea lice stings. The reason it doesn't work is by the time I get out of the water (I may be a half-mile out), too much time has gone by and the stings are already working their harm to my skin. I get better results with Calamine lotion for afterwards. Don't you have a coach besides you during the race? It may be psychological only but we've used it, as soon as the swimmer gets burned though. I see no point in spraying the swimmer long after they got burned. and the brown ones are horrible. These are the one to fear. I remember a race where the organizers tested these fishes. They took them in their hand and didn't get burned. Therefore they officially announced that the fishes were not burning. Problem is that they didn't burn the inside of the hand, but were terrible (as you say) for the rest of the body skin. At least 30% of the swimmers got retired from the event before the end. But worse than jellyfish is the sea lice; the eggs of the jellyfish that look like little splinters in the water. When you see them, it is too late. But there is now a product on the market specifically for this so I will be the guinea pig next year and try it out and swim with these little buggers!! I didn't know all that. Thanks a lot. This swim is being done solo, just me and an escort boat. This has been something I have wanted to do for 3 years so I made the decision. As Terry put it, I will be a marathon finisher all by myself. Be careful. I remember a pair of american folks once here up north. They show up few days before Lac St-Jean international event. Of course the organizers didn't let them register. They decided to do it anyway. The father in the little boat, and the kid. They never made it to the shore, they both died. But back to topic, and if you all wouldn't mind, I would like to periodically update you with the mileage/swim times along the way so you can continue to inspire me and make suggestions. I'll do the best I can but unfortunatelly, I have a major security concern. Be extra careful. If you can afford it, go with two boats. Up North, every swimmer has two boat. Coache's boat, and a big security boat. If you go with one boat, it should be boat big enough. The aforementioned folks who died in Lac St-Jean didn't really have a boat. They only had these little chaloupe you know. Very unstable. In a sea, I wouldn't go there with something smaller than a 24feet long boat with a lot a security equipment. I wouldn't use a boat over 40feet, as I find that their side is so high, it's difficult to reach the swimmer for feeding. All the best!