Freestyle Stroke Question

Solar, I too have enjoyed the discussion and debate, thanks! On a related topic I have a question that has been puzzling me for some time: the wave down the body ending in a whip of the legs theory would seem to me to predict that the kick occurring as the hands exit the water ought to be the stronger kick as it is the one that flows out of the whole body undulation. Any yet, if you watch video of a one-kick fly swimmer they just "drag their legs" for this kick and then do a more vigorous kick timed along with the hand entry. This seems very odd to me, do you have any theories on why this would be?

In the event, exactly what would you have me do differently? Here are a couple of ideas that may benefit both your business and interested swimmers. First, pay for a sponsored link on the USMS Home page. Maybe you already do this. I really believe you should pay for the marketing you do on this site. Second, much as Ande does, have you own discussion thread devoted to TI and your theories. That way folks could drop by whenever they want, pose questions, etc. Ande's "blog" of sorts on this forum has been quite useful over the past year or so.

Geek- you and I have a continuing discussion, in which 'civility' has no application. But we are, by our own rules, and would not strafe someone else in the same manner. I'm not trying to spoil anyone's fun, but this thread has resembled bear-baiting at times.

By the way, kudos to Lindsay- a very thoughtful contributor who has brought a breath of fresh air to Canadian masters swimming.

Geek: I don't agree with your last post. Ande's blog focuses mostly on his workouts and his individual progress with some responses to questions. I'd rather hear Terry's suggestions on a particular stroke question raised by a thread than searching through what could be a long blog on lost of topics. My strokes are not "effortless" (and I don't have a 2 beat kick) but I sure would like to improve or modify them -- especially if doing so saves my shoulders. I get more info from this website than from my coach. So I appreciate the input and weigh over all the suggestions, knowing that some might not be right for me and some could really help. Leslie

Geek: I don't agree with your last post. It was just a suggestion, you don't have to like it. Personally, I find this forum is beginning to feel somewhat hijacked by TI stuff. It is for that reason that I suggested a stand alone discussion thread, much like Ande's, which has proven very successful. "Effortless" strokes, two beat kicks, whatever. Just make sure you are applying them appropriately to what you do and not part of the Kool-Aid cups that are being passed around. You can love to swim in a thousand different ways.

Geek: I'm sure you tell from my prior posts that I am not just drinking from Kool-aid cups." I have a brain. Now I agree with your last paragraph (and what you said about triathletes on another thread). There are many different ways to swim and to work out. For example, I am not changing to a 2 beat kick -- I'm a sprinter -- and I'm going to keep kicking sets in my training regimen. And I don't believe swimming TI will "save" my shoulders. I have to swim around them -- sometimes with fins, which I know you don't like. But with them I can still swim and be fit, loving it the way you suggest. I was just saying I'm not adverse to listening to other people's ideas. Leslie

My, my it is getting feisty on this thread. Terry, you asked about my splits on the 100 free. I will tell you that I have NEVER split closer than 2.83 between the 1st 50 and the last 50 (that split was my fastest 100 free: 29.48, 1:01.79). My worst split was 4.63 (this was my SECOND fastest 100 free: 28.64, 1:01.91). That worst split was my last event on the last day of 2003 Nationals... and I figured why not take it out and just see what happens out of curiousity. I believe if this had been my first event of Nationals, I would have gone a lot faster with the same take it out philosophy. Before I broke 1:03, I used to go out smooth (without a 6 beat kick) in 30, come back in 33. Still a 3 sec differential. Last season, being undertrained and post-partum, I went 1:02.16 (out in 29.61, differential of 2.94). Still 3 seconds. My 50 is 27.8. That 28.64 is not an unreasonable first 50 time. All my best 50 times and my best 100 times have been with a strong 6 beat kick. Splits and discussion aside, I believe it is possible to improve my 100 time. However, in order to do that, the key thing (for me) is GET MY BUTT TO THE POOL! Gull posted something to the effect that you can work on technique but you still have to put in the time and hard work in the pool. (Sorry I didn't go back and find the quote, Gull, but I think that was the gist of it.) Until I bust my butt in practice, with the 6 beat kick that I plan to use during a race, the times aren't going to improve. No, I won't throw technique out... quite the opposite. I'm going to work on the technique I want to use while sprinting. The test will be next spring.

I believe that undulation in the fly works the same way, energy you put into the chest or hips is not transmitted down to the feet, it is absorbed by the water, you have to power each segment of the body/pendulum to produce the desired undulation and movement below the knees, which is the only part that is producing significant forward propulsion. So in your opinion, the power generated from the quad muscles (responsable for lower leg extention) is sufficient for having a body moving under water at speed that excess any other stroke? That leaves me with a question though : Why is it impossible to match this speed with underwater flutter kick?

Matt: I like your criteria. Leslie: I think you nailed it. Even when I train enough yardage, I do not train enough FAST yardage. I think it's at the very top of Ande's tips... if you want to race fast, train fast.