Do you think the following fly to back turn would be legal?
Touch with both hands simultaneously, pivot the legs such that both hands and both feet are touching the wall. Now instead of just pushing off, execute a "gutter" backstroke start, arching out of the water.
The only thing I can think of this might violate is the rule about not leaving the pool during a race. It seems to me that this rule is really saying you aren't allowed to totally leave the pool, stand on deck, then dive back in, but it's probably open to some interpretation.
What do you think? I have no idea if this would actually be faster, but it's a moot point if it isn't even legal :)
I just can't see how this would be faster to actually have to pull into the wall to get the power to accelerate out. I have watched turns taught to the kids for years, and they always teach really, really quick light touch and turn. If they pull forward into the turn it is slower.
Yes - I think it's legal, definitely not faster though. Where's the poll? :D
I've seen relatively newcomers actually perform this (kind of) but they don't technically "leave the water" as their feet just drag though it.
Your momentum would carry you in, so you wouldn't really need to pull in toward the wall. It does seem doubtful it would be faster, but it's possible if well executed. Twenty years ago would you have thought doing dolphin kicking underwater for 15 meters would be faster than swimming on the surface? ;)
Kirk, the turn is legal. But it's not faster, and certainly will take more energy. The person who does this might be spent by the end of the backstroke leg.
Younger kids do this because they aren't taught the "correct" way. I've never seen anyone over the age of 11 do it, though.
Definitely slower as you really can't effectively use your arms to rotate your body,possibly illegal if you curl your toes over the gutter,and I expect it is impossible,or nearly so,in a pool with flat wall turns.
Originally posted by Allen Stark
possibly illegal if you curl your toes over the gutter
I don't think so. That rule only applies to the start, not the turns.
Yes, no question it would take a lot of energy, but so does kicking 15 m off the wall underwater.
I guess I'll just have to try it! My backstroke start sucks, though, so I don't think I'm the person who could pull it off effectively :)
I would think that if someone had really strong abs and huge leg muscles that it could be much faster. In high school we used ot practice backstroke starts off of the wall & not the blocks. It really got you thinking about momentum.
I actually worked on this one a few years ago, showed to my teamates. Yes, I got more distance on the gutter-like start from Fly to Back, but the time it took to pull my feet into position was costly. However, a guy like me who has a terrible backstroke, can justify this loss in time, if it means I can do less actual backstroking, and have more energy left over for the last half.
.... It's getting your feet planted is what takes time. What you should work on, is a 'hybrid' gutter start, that is get your feet on the wall at an angle. I think this should allow one to get their feet there quicker. Then attempt a push over the water.
Kirk:
Two things come to mind when I think about this new IM turn. Unless you have terrible push offs and slow tumble into the wall I can't see how this would be faster. I know that from a dead start and pushing off the wall that this could be faster but not moving at any signicant speed would this help you for 2 reasons.
1. You would have to slow down coming into the wall to be able to grab the wall and use your strength to get that extra push off. The speed at which you would slow down would not be as continous and it would seem that these extra strength demands would cause more fatigue and the benefit if any would be less because of it.
2. If you were at a FINA Championship meet this would be very hard or just about impossible to do because of the high touch pad. Plus even if you had low touch pads there would be a chance that you would slip and not get a good streamlined push off going into backstroke.
