Losers who daydream and miss their heat

Originally posted by Leonard Jansen Actually, I'm surprised that this hasn't turned into a snit about "take personal responsibility" per the "discussion" we had quite some time back concerning people who sue after spilling hot coffee or whatever in their laps. My solution: Each team going to the a meet brings a (or hires a local) mother who has kids in age group swimming. It's her job to walk around, keep track of everything and nag at those who aren't paying attention to their time schedule. In addition, she could hand out those little boxes of juice and small baggies with Cheerios or carrot sticks in them to the swimmers. As an added bonus, she could give "serious talking-to's" to swimmers fraternizing/flirting with the "wrong type of people". ("Johnny, she's a distance swimmer. Do you want your children to be predominantly slow twitch ?") -LBJ Awwww, that is called a bullpen. And by age 10, most kids strongly believe they are too old for a bullpen and should be allowed to just report to their lane. As my daughter says, I am old enough to take care of myself Mom.......right before she misses her heat! :rolleyes: Meg, I understand what you are saying about the difference between rules and policy for the meet. But if it is in the meet information, than isn't it a "rule" for the meet. We had a different visiting ref for a meet that was adamant we could not do deck adds because we did not put that wording in the meet information that deck adds could be done. Normally, I was loosey goosey about it, because coaches do forget swimmers or mess up on events, and since it is for the swimmers, as long as it is done before positive checkin is closed, I have no issues. This ref said, no, but said just put it in your meet information next time...which we are.

Maybe if the meet organizers could give a coupon for a free beer ( or ice cream if you prefer) to all swimmers who show up for all their events the problem would be solved

Originally posted by dorothyrde Meg, I understand what you are saying about the difference between rules and policy for the meet. But if it is in the meet information, than isn't it a "rule" for the meet. We had a different visiting ref for a meet that was adamant we could not do deck adds because we did not put that wording in the meet information that deck adds could be done. Normally, I was loosey goosey about it, because coaches do forget swimmers or mess up on events, and since it is for the swimmers, as long as it is done before positive checkin is closed, I have no issues. This ref said, no, but said just put it in your meet information next time...which we are. Dorothy, sorry I wasn't clear. Yes, it is a rule for the meet. It's just that if you want to change it, it makes a difference whether it's a rule in the rule book or meet policy. Matt, I will try to stop being silly now.

Originally posted by mbmg3282 Assuming we make this available in all events, there is cost to be considered. I agree. That's why I mentioned only events 200 or under would be allowed. As you said, it's pretty easy to see how you could miss your heat in a 50. Heck, even if you're behind your lane in plenty of time it can be difficult to keep track of what heat is currently in the water.

Thanks Mark, good post. I think everyone running any type of meet always wants the best for the swimmers. But there has to be rules that are followed. I also agree that the one Nationals I went to, I was very paranoid about the even and odd thing and making sure I was on the correct end of the pool, because if you were on the other end when it was your time to swim, no way no how were you going to get over to the other end in time.

Originally posted by BillS John's probably wishing he'd started a thread about V02 max and late bloomers instead . . . :D Actually, I'm surprised that this hasn't turned into a snit about "take personal responsibility" per the "discussion" we had quite some time back concerning people who sue after spilling hot coffee or whatever in their laps. My solution: Each team going to the a meet brings a (or hires a local) mother who has kids in age group swimming. It's her job to walk around, keep track of everything and nag at those who aren't paying attention to their time schedule. In addition, she could hand out those little boxes of juice and small baggies with Cheerios or carrot sticks in them to the swimmers. As an added bonus, she could give "serious talking-to's" to swimmers fraternizing/flirting with the "wrong type of people". ("Johnny, she's a distance swimmer. Do you want your children to be predominantly slow twitch ?") -LBJ

Meaning no disrespect to anyone, but I think this is a profoundly silly discussion. If I can add my personal beliefs to this: - We're talking about Masters meets, not the Olympic Trials, so I think we ought to give the officials on deck a whole lot of lattitude about how they keep things going for their meet. Therefore, - If an official notices that John is skylarking away and hasn't realized his heat has been called to the blocks, it's perfectly OK for the official to pause, and say "hey John, are you forgetting something?" I don't particularly care what the "rules" "policy" or any other guidance from USMS says, or whether that will be perfectly fair to any other swimmer the official does not know by sight. - If on the other hand, the official feels the need to press on and John misses his heat, that is OK too. No, this is NOT the same as the two U.S. sprinters who missed their preliminary heat in the 72 Olympics because their coach gave them bad info. This is Masters. We're doing this for fun and missing one or another race is not the end of the world. - Finally, I really don't get the "fairness" argument by people who worry about Rowdy Gains or Amanda Beard (or the Senator for that matter) getting special breaks if they daydream through their heat being marshalled. For cryin' out loud, all of us at USMS would be thrilled they showed up for our fun little meet. Of course, we all want to see them swim, and of course we should tap them on the shoulder if they get a little distracted. Please, this is Masters, not the Halls of Justice! Don't turn the rulebook into the Internal Revenue Code, have fun, and move on. Matt

Originally posted by MegSmath ...ask someone from Championship if they have a written policy manual. If such exists, I'd love to see it posted online. Probably contains much more information than the average USMS member would want to know, but for some of us, it would be a great resource! I agree. Is anyone from the Championship Committee following this discussion? If so, could you tell us if there is a policy manual, and if there might be a way to post it online? SB

A most interesting discussion. Here are a few of my thoughts on the subject. I was the USMS liaison at this meet and met with the officials at the beginning of the meet to discuss our rules. The head officials were in favor of allowing swimmers who didn't check in or that missed events to have some other way to swim them. Unfortunately at this time, we do not conduct our championships that way. The officials made a number of suggestions that the championship committee is going to consider in hopes of improving the athlete experience at our national championships. As for John missing his heat of the 50, it is easier to do than one would think and it does happen a few times each event. When we race in two pools, it is possible to the one course to get ahead of the other. As an example, heat 15 is getting ready to race in the odd course and heat 20 is racing in the even course. This makes it easy to get confused, especially in the 50 where there is a heat going off about every 20 seconds between the two courses. As others have pointed out, with the number of swimmers that we are dealing with, we would have great difficulty if we allowed swimmers to jump into open lanes. Unless the officials were notified in advance, we would likely have problems in the timing room and results would be inaccurate. In local meets in the past, this has led to national records being set incorrectly. Meg, you deserved the hard time you got at the Cardinal Invitational although I am sure I didn't tell people to stop clapping. I just wanted to point out that you were swimming so your friends wouldn't miss you. I like the idea of heats at the end of the meet, but I could see some objections to this. The meet at Coral Springs ran great and we were done by 4:00 each day. In some past nationals, we have had longer day, some ending after 7:00 pm. In those cases, asking volunteers to stay extra so we can run a few events could be asking a lot. Assuming we make this available in all events, there is cost to be considered. If we have an extra heat of the 1650, we would need to keep the ambulance on site. If it was me swimming, it would take 40 minutes. EMT's don't come cheaply. Some hosts are paying $150 - $200 per hour for them to be on site (they are required when swimmers are in the pool for competition or warm down). Still, this is an idea worth considering. Bill, the championship committee is working on a policy manual, but there is nothing formalized yet that I am aware of. There was an earlier comment suggestion that we would all a famous swimmers to compete, but ignore lesser athletes. That is completely untrue. Over the years, Olympians have missed there heats on occasion. Ron Karnaugh didn't check in for the 1000 in Hawaii. Gary Hall, Jr. missed an event in Cupertino. Gary Hall, Sr. missed an event here in Coral Springs. While not quite as well known, John as going after the national record in the 50 back and is certainly a swimmer fun to watch competing. Our rules apply to all swimmers, fast or slow. In truth, John all your problems would have been solved if you had just listened to the announcer. John, if you had listened to the announcer

Originally posted by dorothyrde They could have gotten real crabby and scratched you out of your next event. That is what happens to the age groupers! No, they couldn't: Article 102.8.1 states "Any swimmer or relay team not reporting for or competing in an event shall not be penalized."