Western Australia

The point is that kids can play on a basketball team without investing a lot of time and still derive some gratification from the experience (ie scoring some baskets). Swimming does not yield immediate results at any level and requires a substantial amount of time (years) learning technique and developing VO2max.

I would argue that it requires a much greater investment of time and effort to be able to swim a (legal) 25 fly in under 25 seconds than it does to be able sink a basket. Kids get frustrated if they don't see immediate results--that's the challenging part of keeping them interested in swimming. So am I to understand, Geek, that you were playing basketball (and swimming) before you could walk? You truly are an early bloomer.

Hey, here's bit of irony for you. I'm agreeing with Gull while disagreeing with Geek! First, please don't talk to me about Div I basketball vis-a-vis national or world class swimming. At the elite level of ANY sport, whether its ball room dancing, bass fishing or tiddly-winks, you are going to be practicing hours a day, cross-training your brains out, and hiring mental, nutritional, spiritual and whatever else consultants to find "the edge." The issue here is what is the minimum commitment for a bunch of kids who want to try the sport and have fun. In more than one location, my son has signed up for a youth basketball program that was a one hour x twice a week commitment (one practice, one game). PLUS kids can play pick up basketball in the street or the playgrounds as much or as little as they like. I'd love to hear about a pack of kids all showing up at the pool and racing a 50 *** or 200 IM just for grins and giggles, but sadly, it simply doesn't happen in my experience. Swimming, in contrast, needs much more of a sustained commitment for any meaningful participation. I coached the youth league swim team at the same Base Youth Center that sponsored my son's basketball team. In contrast to the 2 hours per week they needed, we had hour to hour and a half practices five days a week, or when the dual meet season got going, replace two of those workouts with two 3-4 hour long meets. Bear in mind, that was following my own personal philosophy of coaching youth swimming for fun, first, second and third, and not confusing their fun with my ego. Based on what I have seen from some other swim programs (where the benighted fool of a coach thinks he is going to make the next Michael Phelps, and he is going to get there by working the you-know-what off of every 8 year old he can get his clutches on until he finds one who can put up with his stuff, but I digress...), we were at the extreme end of low-key, participation oriented programs. Now perhaps someone is suggesting that swimming programs are this way because that is the paradigm in U.S. Swimming for the last few decades. Maybe if we rethought what being a "swimming program" meant, and what we asked of the kids and their families, maybe we would come up with something a lot more like youth basketball. I, for one, am listening. Matt

Simply put, basketball is not as demanding as swimming, gets more recognition, so of course they are going to do it. Most parents would rather watch a basketball game then a swim meet. Swimming is hard work for a kid, and it is hard work for the parent supporting the kid. You have to make it fun to keep them.

Originally posted by dorothyrde Simply put, basketball is not as demanding as swimming, gets more recognition, so of course they are going to do it. Most parents would rather watch a basketball game then a swim meet. Swimming is hard work for a kid, and it is hard work for the parent supporting the kid. You have to make it fun to keep them. Um, you could not be farther from the truth. A kid that competes in competitive basketball is away just as much as a swimmer and the parental committment is just as big. Away basketball tourneys are as long or longer than swim meets, with the championship game usually late on Sunday or even Monday. They are also year round, as with swimming. The most competitive teams travel hundreds of miles away multiple times a year for tourneys. Basketball travel for kids is nuts. Having done both and living in a neighborhood with both, I can assure you that the two are equals in both time, conditioning and parental involvement.

Originally posted by gull80 I think Dorothy's point is that YMCA basketball typically requires one practice a week for about an hour, then a game on Saturday (at least that's the schedule here). The game is over in under an hour, and if a kid gets a basket or two, he's pretty happy. Yeah, but that's comparing apples to noodles. A kid who practices once a week and plays on Saturday should be compared to the lowest tier Y swim team also. A competitive teenage swimmer and a talented teenage basketball player probably both give similar efforts. A close friend of mine just completed her college basketball career and that poor girl was gone all the time to games and the NCAA tourney, not to mention the practices as well. It was no different from a swimmer, to be sure. I have heard that hockey players are the best conditioned of them all. I have no knowledge about hockey, might be best to ask one of the Canadian interlopers on this forum.

I think Dorothy's point is that YMCA basketball typically requires one practice a week for about an hour, then a game on Saturday (at least that's the schedule here). The game is over in under an hour, and if a kid gets a basket or two, he's pretty happy.

I think the conditioning for basketball is just as intense as that of swimming. I remember watching part of a friends basketball practice in high school and I was sooooo happy I was not on that team. I think half of the practice was about basketball and the other half was running, sprinting, jumping up the stairs in the bleachers time and time again. It was brutal. My friend was a cross country runner as well and he always told me that basketball took way more out of him than CC practice.

Right, but even at the "entry" level for our YMCA swim team, the kids practice 3-5x/week and train several weeks between meets. They may not see results for months, consequently other sports look more attractive. Listen, Geek, I know where you live. Don't make me come over there.

Craig, all the age group teams I see in the Chicago 'burbs have team T-shirts - even the summer league teams. Some have team Towels and backpacks as well. They also give out the participation ribbons to everyone that enters an event at a meet. Doesn't this count? Someone has to pay for this things. Usually shirts are part of team dues and parents buy the bag,etc. Are you willing to kick-in $20 more on your USMS fees so all age groupers get a free back-pack?