In keeping of the spirit of abrupt left turns via humor and ad hominem attacks . . . Offer 2 free noodles with any new membership?
Seriously, the fitness challenge style checkoff skills test is a very good idea. I don't think it has to include a requirement to swim anything in an actual competition, as that might put some people off, but an objective skill standard is an excellent goal. When a self-described fitness swimmer achieves that goal, and thereby gains confidence in his or her ability to swim each of the requirements, that may spark an interest in competing. Or it may not, but either way, we all benefit.
Is the definition of a fitness swimmer simply a swimmer who doesn't compete? I know a lot of people who don't compete due to the zillion things in their lives but they aren't just a floater, they can haul. Just because 80% of our membership doesn't compete we shouldn't assume they are all slow newbies who don't have the competitive fire.
So, of this 80% that doesn't compete, what is the true percentage of newbies who are solely there for the fitness laps? I think that's what needs better definition. I would hazard a guess that 80% of the 80% would, in a survey, say they would someday like to compete.
Originally posted by Matt S
Humor and ad hominem attacks. Two wonderful ways for avoiding original thinking and changing the subject.
So, this appears to be what we have thus far:
(1) A suggestion that we have more open water events because they seem to be more approachable and meaningful for people who don't care much for competition. (I particularly liked the analogy of meet swimming is to open water what track meets are to road races and "fun runs." That clarified a lot of ideas for me.)
(2) Martial arts styled skills tests. Actually, I think this idea has real merit. We already do something a little bit like this with the "check-off challenges" some teams run (e.g. swim at least once in competition each event from this list, and win a t-shirt or some other recognition). Please note that the concept can be done anyway that gets people excited, especially the numerous but elusive "fitness" swimmer, and can be effectively administered. I personally would recommend AGAINST doing skill tests at meets. The fitness types are telling us that meets put them off, rather than attract them. Also, that would make the problem of meets that run too long to be interesting that much worse. Please also note that we can put a time component into the skill test if that makes sense for us. The "yellow belt" level for freestyle might simply be a block start, a flip turn, and complete a 500 any which way you can. However, the "black belt" level might require completion of a 10K open water swim, X number of hours coaching at some level, and finish at 200 free SCY in competition at or faster than some time level. We may, or may not, norm that time standard by age or gender.
(3) My idea: could we reach and benefit the "fitness" swimmer by trying to help USMS teams and coaches? We already help with the group liability coverage. Could we be more systematic and comprehensive with training for coaches, possibly subsidized? Offer some tangible help to start up teams? If all fitness swimmers really want is a place to hit the water, and maybe engaging organized workouts, are there ways to create more opportunities for them? Again, we already do some of this with our "Places to Swim" pages off of the web site, and that is a real, valuable service. What more can we do?
The raw numbers are that the people who join USMS and don't ever swim a meet greatly outnumber those of us who swim meets. Add in the people who would join USMS if only we offered ____. I don't think it waters down masters swimming at all to try to do more for the majority of our membership, or for those who might become members. In fact, if the only resources to run the competitions USMS sanctions came from the people who actually participate in these competitions, you'd see the variety and quality of meets drop dramatically. I cannot emphasize this enough, each and every one of us built USMS into what it is today. We do not yet have the luxury of being so big that we can splinter into several interest groups and expect all of them to survive, or any of them for that matter.
Back to the "fitness" swimmers. please, Please, PLEASE tell us what the _____ is that would make your experience bigger and better. So this doesn't turn into naked consumerism, please offer these suggestions in the spirit of "_____ would be great, and this is what I, personally, could do to help make it happen."
Matt
Matt, there is one thing I would like, and that is a coached work-out that is more available to me. The Master's group at my Y meets Friday and Sundays and the cost in my mind is way to high for two days. These are the two worse days possible for me, so I work out on my own. I AM a member of USMS in the outside chance I might join the group or go to a meet, but I need more work-outs available at times I could make it. But that is NOT a USMS issue, that is a local issue. Ditto with having no meets close.
Bill,
I read through about page 12 of this and couldn't go on...
I know a lot of magazines, like SI, throw out a "carrot" if you subscribe, ie a keychain, free Swimsuit Edition, autographed football, etc.
I, for one, am not interested in the Swimsuit Edition but I would be interested in a free noodle!
Originally posted by Karen Duggan
I know a lot of magazines, like SI, throw out a "carrot" if you subscribe, ie a keychain, free Swimsuit Edition, autographed football, etc.
Nice to see you back on the forum.
Now, how about an autographed noodle from one of the Smiths?
Humor and ad hominem attacks. Two wonderful ways for avoiding original thinking and changing the subject.
So, this appears to be what we have thus far:
(1) A suggestion that we have more open water events because they seem to be more approachable and meaningful for people who don't care much for competition. (I particularly liked the analogy of meet swimming is to open water what track meets are to road races and "fun runs." That clarified a lot of ideas for me.)
(2) Martial arts styled skills tests. Actually, I think this idea has real merit. We already do something a little bit like this with the "check-off challenges" some teams run (e.g. swim at least once in competition each event from this list, and win a t-shirt or some other recognition). Please note that the concept can be done anyway that gets people excited, especially the numerous but elusive "fitness" swimmer, and can be effectively administered. I personally would recommend AGAINST doing skill tests at meets. The fitness types are telling us that meets put them off, rather than attract them. Also, that would make the problem of meets that run too long to be interesting that much worse. Please also note that we can put a time component into the skill test if that makes sense for us. The "yellow belt" level for freestyle might simply be a block start, a flip turn, and complete a 500 any which way you can. However, the "black belt" level might require completion of a 10K open water swim, X number of hours coaching at some level, and finish at 200 free SCY in competition at or faster than some time level. We may, or may not, norm that time standard by age or gender.
(3) My idea: could we reach and benefit the "fitness" swimmer by trying to help USMS teams and coaches? We already help with the group liability coverage. Could we be more systematic and comprehensive with training for coaches, possibly subsidized? Offer some tangible help to start up teams? If all fitness swimmers really want is a place to hit the water, and maybe engaging organized workouts, are there ways to create more opportunities for them? Again, we already do some of this with our "Places to Swim" pages off of the web site, and that is a real, valuable service. What more can we do?
The raw numbers are that the people who join USMS and don't ever swim a meet greatly outnumber those of us who swim meets. Add in the people who would join USMS if only we offered ____. I don't think it waters down masters swimming at all to try to do more for the majority of our membership, or for those who might become members. In fact, if the only resources to run the competitions USMS sanctions came from the people who actually participate in these competitions, you'd see the variety and quality of meets drop dramatically. I cannot emphasize this enough, each and every one of us built USMS into what it is today. We do not yet have the luxury of being so big that we can splinter into several interest groups and expect all of them to survive, or any of them for that matter.
Back to the "fitness" swimmers. please, Please, PLEASE tell us what the _____ is that would make your experience bigger and better. So this doesn't turn into naked consumerism, please offer these suggestions in the spirit of "_____ would be great, and this is what I, personally, could do to help make it happen."
Matt
John & I have accepted a request from USMS to be present for an autograph session following each days events at nationals next week. Noodles, smocks, water wings and body parts are all welcome.
We will be charing a nominal fee which will be used to hire a PI to seek out the Geeks home address and provide photos for this forum.
In addtion mark Gill will oversee the proceedings and will offer himself up for bidding to take him to dinner each night.
Originally posted by nkfrench
There are more than 2 ways to classify swimmers -- it is not purely "elite" competitors and lap swimmers. One is the competitor who swims against other people. Another is the person who swims against themself and the clock. Both of these may or may not go to meets for competition. Competitors stimulate us to achieve our best. Meets help us motivate ourselves with goals and show us the results of our training.
Another group doesn't care about the clock or how fast others are going at all. They may or may not care about improving their technique or increasing fitness beyond a certain point.
And there's the none-of-the-above category.
I think all of us would like to have lanespace free of distractions and interference, with suitable temperatures and good availability in a clean nearby facility.
Many of us enjoy the cameraderie of our teammates and coach.
A coach can help manage the lanespace so people don't interfere with other's workouts.
Even if I never went to another meet in my life, I would still want to swim with a structured group with a coach. I hope to never have to deal just with open public lap swim again.
I wish I could, but it is just not available at this time to me. I still have hopes, still pushing for a better structure to this group....like a pitbull I don't give up!
Originally posted by Matt S
(2) Martial arts styled skills tests. Actually, I think this idea has real merit. We already do something a little bit like this with the "check-off challenges"...
Sounds like you are suggesting an adult version of the Red Cross swimming programs. Take a bunch of lessons, demonstrate proficiency, get a card. (I was stuck at "advanced beginner", because I kept doing normal backstroke instead of elementary backstroke.)
