Is there really a division between masters swimmers? i.e. one camp allied to a more low key fitness oriented approach with low membership growth vs. a meet oriented competitive (elite) camp?
This sounds ridiculous to me. I don't think I've ever run into anyone that acknowledged this debate on a pool deck.
What spawns this rift in Masters swimming? Is this an old guard vs. younger member phenonmenon?
Are there different motivations that exist that create this conflict in terms of the future of USMS? Why can't both coexist?
I say we poll some people out there and find out what they support.
John Smith
Former Member
Originally posted by Michael Heather
Matt,
And to the last poster, this DF is filled with competition of all sorts, each and every one of us trying to persuade all others that we are not full of hot air. Among us there are lots of very helpful, patient persons who go out of their way to explain or counsel even the most novice swimmer on any topic. I disagree with the notion that fitness swimmers are not made to feel welcome here, even though they may feel overwhelmed by the passion that exists in the posts.
I didn't say they were made to feel unwelcome, but from the content of these discussions boards fitness swimmers who don't have access to a club come to believe USMS is about competition. It may be true that clubs do cater to both fitness and competitive swimmers, but the majority of people who post here compete and that is the impression that is projected through these discussions. Add to that the unwillingness of USMS to find a coach who will post workouts for the lowest level swimmer and this site just turns people off. (yeah, yeah, yeah I know the tired worn out arguement that a coach can't do that because they have to see the swimmer or else it is just junk yardage. If you noncoaches can explain or counsel novice swimmers, and coaches can publish books that start out with very low level workouts, then coaches can do it here too.)
Geek, I searched on "fitness swimming" 25 threads turned up. And how many threads are there total? Of course that isn't to say other threads wouldn't have information for a fitness swimmer. There isn't one space devoted completely to fitness swimming. There is, however, a board devoted entirely to discussion of the USMS National Competition.
Why not have 2 categories, The Jedi, and the Masters, or 3, Tri Guys, or rename them The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.
I still think it should be, come one, come all.
My search fitness swimming turned up 42,700,000. I checked 10 pages of the results and most turned up with the words fitness swimming and several stated USMS.
I agree... I think there should be two general discussion boards: Competitive Swimming-General Discussions and Fitness Swimming-General Discussions. It would make the fitness swimmer feel more welcome. And, if as USMS claims that the majority of their members never compete, the Fitness Swimming board should be more popular than the Competitive Swimming board.
Now, if you all will excuse me. I am going to spend the rest of this glorious four day weekend on my favorite beach.
All it would take is to put up posters at all swimming pools in your area. There are 10 pools within 25 minutes of my hometown.
Do you think it is time for a poster contest?
Is there anything wrong with the way nationals is currently held?
I've only gone to 1 nationals, and it was because my team was hosting the event. I didn't qualify for any events, and just registered for my 3. I think the only time I would go again is if it is convenient (within a 2-3 hour drive). I think 50%+ of people who don't qualify would be in the same boat, only go if it is convenient.
I don't like the idea of seeding strictly by time either. When I swam at nationals, it was the only time I've swam with other guys in my age group. We do the time only thing at local events, which is fine to make the meet move along smoother, but then I never actually swim head-to-head with people in my age group. At nationals, there seemed to be enough people in each sex/age group that things still moved along fast enough.
As for growth, I'm all for it. We usually have at least 4 people per lane at my workouts, but when we have loads of people, the coach will sometimes move some lanes to the other side of the bulkhead (that area is generally for rec swimmers, but there's hardly any there at 6am). As long as we are similar times and placed well in the lane, I feel workouts are more productive with a larger group, and I can 'compete' against people in neighboring lanes. As our group has expanded, the coach has worked with local Y's (and other pools) and set up some extention groups with them.
Cutting it down to say 3-4 heats per age group per event would certainly help get it over with.
John - maybe you would want to calculate a timeline with 4 heats per age group. That would be about 50 heats per event - adding together both men and women. While 50 heats of 50's would take about 25 minutes (two courses short course). Fifty heats of 1650s would be about 10-12 hours.
And you have to make the whole thing worth it so that someone wants to bid for the event. I would take all the 50 and 100s that I could put in a pool. Give me 8 heats per age group. Eight heats per age group will run about an hour of heats. 50's run quickly.
I would want to have the distance events far more competitive.
If you really want to drag a long course meet - have every event have two full heats of each age group. Trust me, it would take a long time.
As to whether you are going to seed by age group/by time or just by time, that is a religious discussion. While I might vote for seeding by time only - just like the distance events, I do not think that will get passed any time soon. But it is a rules year, have your LMSC propose it.
michael
Michael,
Lest you forget (or if you didn't know).....JS is a VP/CFO type for a rather large telecommunications monster (otherwise known as the "evil empire")......in other words things like counting, profitablity, etc. have little role in his life (Hey, he screws up the taxpayer bails him out!).
Oh......and NEVER bring up religion with him! Although I do believe he had somewhat of a "spiritual experience" last weekend in the 200 free!
PS: In former discussions we've pointed out that seeding by time is done at most of the regional meets......which I think is fine, keep nationals seeding as it is and hopefully satisfy both camps (at least to a degree).
In former discussions we've pointed out that seeding by time is done at most of the regional meets......which I think is fine, keep nationals seeding as it is and hopefully satisfy both camps (at least to a degree).
As I said, it is a religious discussion. Do you want to see really competitive races with people of the roughly the same speed, or do you want to say that this is that you are racing against the competition in your age group. Take your choice - personally I would rather see a competitive race - it is far more interesting.
michael
