Elite vs. Fitness

my wife and I find that people tend to hang together mostly because they have been in a lane/group for a long time...and often are busy chatting it up....easy to take it as elite or cliquish but I doubt its often the case. Not to mention swimming just doesn't lend itself to socializing during the workout. You're just not going to get the chance to talk to the guy or gal two lanes over unless it's in the locker room after practice. For this reason I think any training group that really thinks of themselves as a "team" needs to have social events outside the pool.

Thanks for refreshing this thread for us "newbies". Where I fit in in master's swimming is a big question for me. I'm swimming on my own now. I started back in the pool in Nov. following surgery and 20 years of inactivity. I never swam competively, just laps for stress relief in college and grad school. Now I swim with more intention. My body's getting older and I need to gain fitness yesterday. I've started by working my way through the 0 to 1650 program (week 4 for me). I regard myself as a serious swimmer at the start of a training program. When I discovered the master's team at my pool, I thought "that's what I'm looking for", understandably after I've got more endurance and speed. When I made interested noises to some master's swimmers I met, I encountered a wall of elitism which turned me off. Big time. Now, I don't know if I'll ever compete. A few months ago I would have said "no way, no how". Now, as I can feel myself swim better, longer and faster, I'm not so sure. I'm addicted to swimming and am competitive by nature. But any team I train with has to have a developmental attitude. This board has been a great source of encouragement. Most posters seem to be accepting of those new to serious swimming. I've learned a great deal reading discussions (haven't had much to add to this point), and seen that there is a place for non-competitors within the organization. That said, I think using language such as "elite" when meaning competitors is off-putting. "Elite" has an undeniable connotation of "better that others", and I hope that's not where the emphasis is. I wish my local team had more of a welcoming attitude. Maybe I talked to the wrong people. I'll certainly try again as I get stronger and faster (I'm stubborn too). But for right now, I'm the gal in the second lane - too fast for the wall too slow for the middle - working on my technique.

But for right now, I'm the gal in the second lane - too fast for the wall too slow for the middle - working on my technique. I like it when we finally get back to what it's all about! Nice quote, well placed. We're all in the same water. And as Archie Harris used to say,"Keep swimming, you're not out of deep water yet!"

My thought on nationals is that it is pretty cool that pretty much any USMS swimmer can go - and is something I know I mention every time I try to recruit folks to come (or just get into the pool). For all of us who never got the chance to qualify for a national meet as a kid, now, we can go to the national meet whenever we want just because we can. I think that is pretty cool. Now, I do make NQTs, and do quite alright for myself as well. I think it's great that anyone can participate. That is what masters swimming is all about. I've never gone to nationals before. Since I started competing 5 years ago nationals has been on the other side of the country and I couldn't justify the trip to swim just 3 events. This year, for the first time ever, I have qualifying times in 4 events and am close in another 4. Also, nationals is in the west which makes it even better. So I will definitely be there. And I'm looking forward to meeting some of the people from this forum.:banana:

I've been swimming Masters for 13 years now and for the first time ever, this past weekend, I encountered somewhat an "elitist" attitude. A girl on my team (very fast) commented that she was nervous about racing another girl on my team (faster than her!), and she commented that, "I don't know why I'm nervous, she's at my level." I was really surprised. The faster girl was an NCAA finalist and the even faster girl had her Trials cuts "back in the day." But it was quite clear that Ms. NCAA finalist saw herself as above the rest of us. That's something I haven't encountered in Masters before. When I mentioned this to Trials girl she too looked befuddled and said, "Those swims were so long ago. There are no levels in Masters." Interesting. Seems like a very tame comment to me. I feel she was just trying to stay positive and psyche herself up for what she knew would be a challenging race. NCAA mentions no one else other than Ms. Trials, so not sure where the "rest of us" come into play, other than they are both above my "level." Anyway, so don't keep us hanging. Who won? Race recap?

I am glad Dr. Suess dragged up this thread. I remember hearing about this long before I started posting. Some very interesting viewpoints. My thought on nationals is that it is pretty cool that pretty much any USMS swimmer can go - and is something I know I mention every time I try to recruit folks to come (or just get into the pool). Also, a different view on the honor of going to nationals: consider folks like myself who never swam AAU/USS/YMCA/NCAA. Folks who are getting in the water for the first time ever, or after 20-30-40 years. Folks who have swum all their life and love it but can never challenge michael phelps. For all of us who never got the chance to qualify for a national meet as a kid, now, we can go to the national meet whenever we want just because we can. I think that is pretty cool. Now, I do make NQTs, and do quite alright for myself as well. :joker:

I believe that we decided that 'elite' was all of us regular posters to the forum.

As for nationals, I'd like us to make up our mind if we'd rather have a "festival" or a "championship" meet. I'd say we are closer to the festival (big, fun, social), which has its advantages for many people. The Nationals format does not seem to do so well at catering to the smaller group of faster swimmers (very long days, crowded warmups, segmented too much by age v. speed). I'm not saying the meet totally fails for these swimmers, but it could be improved. I'd prefer seeding by time over age, as that seems like it would provide better competition for the faster swimmers. At the facilities nationals are held at, it should not matter what lane you . Sorry to drag up an old thread, but with so many newbies like myself, I thought it would be enlightening. I think it's great that nationals is more like a "festival." Good fellowship and fast swimming is the best combination. Keep the qualifying times, but let the less elite swimmers come and swim their 3 free events. What a great feeling for them. If it inconveniences fast swimmers a bit because they can't leave by 2:00 pm, that doesn't really get my knickers in a twist. They can still have dinner and go to bed early while the festival continues. As for the divide between elite and fitness swimmers, I haven't noticed a divisive schism since joining the forum. People genuinely seem to want to help or empathize. I have witnessed some elite swimmers being very opinionated about their views and a little bullying/dismissive of those who aren't as "elite" or who aren't themselves coaches. Was there agreement on what was "elite?" Is it making national cuts or, as Gull said, just competing in meets?

Thank you Randy for bring some light to this issue. I am new to reading and posting on the forum, but it seems that it had gotten a bit intense at times on what an elite swimmer is or isnt, I guess that type of thinking automaticaly makes me a lap/fitness swimmer irregardless of my goals. I work in healthcare so my focus is to celebrate life in all its glories and follies because it may not be there tomorrow. I truly enjoy and am a bit jeslous of others who swim fast but I am equally impressed with the person who can't but tries anyways and keeps trying, in fact maybe a little more impressed by that person, to me that is the truly "elite" swimmer. I am guessing and hoping there are more of those swimmers in the USMS membership...

USMS can be beneficial to both these groups. We must give the competitive swimmer all the help we can because they are pushing the envelope and going into places where others have not been before. Exciting stuff. On the other hand whenever I am in a pool I see many so called lap swimmers who are successful and happy in our sport and swimming for all the right reasons. Lets not forget how open water swimming is growing and that there are several groups within the open water ranks. The so called solo swimmers who may not be fast but can swim forever -like across the channel, or complete a 10K for the first time. Others race any distance and love the competition. Both are successful and included in our USMS family. We have Gary Hall’s Race Club where the state of the art training is offered from the worlds best sprint pro’s, Total Immersion’s technique help and the numerous fitness programs offered through our USMS fitness committee. Something for everyone. One of my greatest swim memories was to have helped Sharon Luca, a blind swimmer swim 12 miles around Key West. She did not get a medal for her speed but we did award her a spirit award. She was as much a part of the event as the medalists. I remember visiting the Hubbard Family Swim School in Scottsdale, Arizona and noticed that posted on the bulletin board they had articles of Olympic Champion swimmers and recent meet results. All this in a learn to swim environment. They have their eye on excellence while not forgetting everyone else. Excellent stuff to expose the kids to. So let’s try to bring everyone that enjoys getting wet into our great sport. We should do this over a Guinness.