What do you think of total immersion?

Does that make her a bad swimmer? I don't think it does.

Originally posted by gull80 I guess there are three topics which should be off limits: religion, politics, and TI. .....and college football and the BCS.

Originally posted by gull80 I just wanted to know how she did in Athens. It's a fair question. TI uses her story to validate their training philosophy. The top coaches in swimming are judged by the number of Olympians they produce, are they not? My opinions about TI could only be considered inflammatory if they were taken personally. And for some odd reason, that seems to be the case. I guess there are three topics which should be off limits: religion, politics, and TI. Being an Olympian is a great thing but so is swimming a sub 16 minute mile (fastest high schooler, etc., etc.). I can't do it. I suspect that very few people here can. The bottom line is that she is an incredible swimmer by any measure and she is coached with TI methods. I don't take it personally because I don't train with TI methods. I found it inflamatory because I know how you feel about TI and I think that this TI swimmer deserves some credit, as does her coach.

Regardless of how she achieved her times, through TI method or any other method, there should only be respect given to her for the swims. The reactions to TI on this discussion board are definitly mixed. The real question, in my mind, do the people who don't like TI, not like it because of the method or the man behind the method?

Originally posted by 330man I found it inflamatory because I know how you feel about TI and I think that this TI swimmer deserves some credit, as does her coach. I assume TI would have taken credit for her success at the Olympics had she made the team (I honestly did not know if she had). And while I certainly do not mean to discredit her achievements, it's not at all surprising that TI does not in turn accept blame for her failure to make the Olympic team. That's what good marketing is all about. And that is why I "feel" the way I do about TI.

Originally posted by gull80 I assume TI would have taken credit for her success at the Olympics had she made the team (I honestly did not know if she had). And while I certainly do not mean to discredit her achievements, it's not at all surprising that TI does not in turn accept blame for her failure to make the Olympic team. That's what good marketing is all about. And that is why I "feel" the way I do about TI. Gull, I can see where you are coming from. However, I highly doubt that TI is to blame for her failure to make the Olympic Team in 2004. There are so many variables to consider, that is for certain, but I doubt her technique training is one of them. Especially when you consider that the same training was responsible for her record setting 1650 time. In addition, I would not expect TI to take the blame for her failure to make the team. Did Bob Bowman step up and take the blame for Michael's lackluster performance at the World Champs in Canada? Not that I recall. The blame was to be placed on no one other than Michael himself, and he openly admitted to his training shortcomings prior to that meet. If you are treating a patient for high LDL, low HDL, hypertension, hypotension, or any other cardiovascular disease and the patient has a stroke, heart attack, etc. despite your treatment, do you accept the blame? Does a cardiothoracic surgeon tell his patients about the successes he has had in the OR or about those who have died on the table? My point is that cause and effect is not always the proper explanation. If you hear hoofbeats do you assume that it's a zebra? (Stole that one from Dr. Dean Edell...thanks Dr.!) Despite your best efforts, not all patients can be helped. Despite TI's training, a swimmer is not guranteed to excel. You are not always responsible for a patients outcome and a training method is not always to blame for a swimmers degree of success.

Here is another thing to consider, by the time she went to the 2004 trials, she was not training under her club coach. In fact, during the 2003-2004 school year, she was a freshman in college. Adjusting to a new coach, new part of the country, etc, etc. Is that to blame for her not making the team? Seriously doubt it but it could play into how she swam that first year. Esp. if her new coach, made changes to her stroke during that first year. So, we can sit here and come up with a lot of reasons why she didn't make the team. Fact is, she didn't. Fact is, she has swam super fast using TI methods. And he is right, TI works well for some, then again, it doesn't work well for others.

Here's the thing--TI does not have a patent on their drills, as was pointed out elsewhere on this forum. What they have done is repackage them and successfully market their product. I think their claims are overstated, but that's my opinion. I don't begrudge them their success--it's free enterprise. It's kind of like the repackaging of the Mediterranean diet into the Sonoma diet. Personally, I think the greatest value of the TI "method" might be in teaching novice swimmers, lap swimmers, and perhaps triathletes (especially since swimming is the shortest portion of a tri).

Most great coaches are dependent on swimmers coming from other coaches. I know a very succesfull Y coach who has limited time for coaching. His swimmers always leave him to swim for other coaches and he coaches using TI principals. All of the kids I taught to swim had to leave my pool and go to swim clubs as my cost was to high for them to continue their dreams but they knew how to swim.

How did Adrienne do in Athens?