Race Club Article

Originally posted by Sam Perry Great point. I wonder how many coaches in USA Swimming actually excel at this. I think there are very few coaches at whatever level that do this well. That one point seems to make the difference in what makes a coach good or great. I believe any coach can teach technique, come up with creative workouts, take splits, zip up fastskins, etc. There are very few that can do what you say in the above quote. If USA Swimming wants to improve and have some legs to continue to grow the sport (no pun intended), this is a major issue that they should be addressing. I'm not sure about the "any coach can teach technique" statement, in my opinion this is the most challenging area of swim coaching, but wonder what you think USA swimming should do in the area to help coaches tailor swim training programs? BTW, I am aware that lots of people have written articles on this subject and coaches spend lots of time trying to figure out how to best accomplish this. The scientific literature also includes a number of studies on this topic. Its my experience that coaches try their best in this area but it is pretty complicated task especially when you are dealing with younger athletes that are still growing physically and mentally at very different rates. Hall made a number of points that are valid re training and specialization but also are well-known issues that many people are trying to address from a prespective of experience and knowledge that I'm not sure that he can claim beyond his experience as a swimmer and coach at the Race Club. I think that Hall's comments/suggestion re marketing of swimming are far more interesting and valuable than his personal opinions on how to train swimmers, other than himself.

Bring it on Evil One! So tell me.......what kind of training did you do with Eddie as a freshman? Better yet........would love to hear a bit more about Gary's training as an age grouper......and yours......guessing there are some parallels? My recollection of that timeframe was that quite a few of us (sprinter/middle distance/stroke specialists) we're all doing some pretty massive base training...........20k a day, weights, stadiums, etc. over the holidays as I recall! In fact I think I'm just starting to hit my taper NOW....25 years later!

"I know he is using the same philosophy at Michigan and getting results." Wow, an OSU grad writing nice things about Mich.....I am impressed......

Still though, Im not sure what the puprose is for this article. when I first read it on the rac club page, I thought that it seemed like a backhanded complement. Is that what it is?

I remember an article by Bob Bowman saying that he thinks people specialize too early and believes in having all the kids swim all obviously that worked for at least one of his kids. I know he is using the same philosophy at Michigan and getting results. I think the main purpose of that article was to say that just because a kid can't hacket it doing 10k or more doesn't mean that they can't be or wont' be a good swimmer or even a great swimmer. Some people need more patience and time ... both Hoff and Phelps had some fears of the water they had to overcome ... I also agree that if I was an age grouper and I was gutting out 10k or more a day and half my teammates were doing 5k and going home I'd probably be upset. There are way too many facets that go into this argument ... bottom line, coaches need to know their athletes, when and who to push ... I think it is the responsibility of the coaches, the athletes and the parents to determine what type and level of training is the best for each individual ...

I really wondered why the article appeared. It, at first, seemed to me to have a very negative messafge hidden under a seemingly positive facade. When I was younger (the early 70s) everyone started swimming great distances in practice. Then as the season got into the third week in high school, some did less, some did more. When I first went to college, we all swam a lot (it was a small div III college). Now I swim about the same amount as then. The age groupers who I see at the Y where I swim seem to me not to swim enough. They work on starts and sprinting every day for at least 20 minutes. Some are really strong. That seems to me to be too much time for starts. But they seem to win. Those kids get to high school and do really well for our area (in western Illinois, basketball rules). The girls have sort of slacked recently but the boys have been undefeated in conference for 3 1/2 yrs. However, not many go to state- 2 or 3 boys. How many yards to swim is such a big, cloudy area. The boys high school coach is really rougfh. The girls coach is also the head coach of age groupers. Aso, many of the guys in high school are built like typical swimmers. I'm not sure what is the perfect body type. I'm very tall and thin. Bu many of the guys I used to swim with were much shorlter and muscular. Inthe age groupers there are many very over weightboys. thius really shocks me becasue they are really "fat." Not until recently did I ever se so many overweight young boys swimming. One boy is huge and a distance swimmer. He seems to me to be doing really well. I'm sure that he is about 5ft 6 in ansd well over 2oo pounds. Who knows?

Originally posted by SwiminONandON ... bottom line, coaches need to know their athletes, when and who to push ... I think it is the responsibility of the coaches, the athletes and the parents to determine what type and level of training is the best for each individual ... Great point. I wonder how many coaches in USA Swimming actually excel at this. I think there are very few coaches at whatever level that do this well. That one point seems to make the difference in what makes a coach good or great. I believe any coach can teach technique, come up with creative workouts, take splits, zip up fastskins, etc. There are very few that can do what you say in the above quote. If USA Swimming wants to improve and have some legs to continue to grow the sport (no pun intended), this is a major issue that they should be addressing.

Originally posted by craiglll@yahoo.com The age groupers who I see at the Y where I swim seem to me not to swim enough. They work on starts and sprinting every day for at least 20 minutes. Some are really strong. That seems to me to be too much time for starts. But they seem to win. Those kids get to high school and do really well for our area (in western Illinois, basketball rules). The girls have sort of slacked recently but the boys have been undefeated in conference for 3 1/2 yrs. However, not many go to state- 2 or 3 boys. How many yards to swim is such a big, cloudy area. The boys high school coach is really rougfh. The girls coach is also the head coach of age groupers. ] Craig, not sure your Y program is a typical view of USS swimming. Since we have had swimmers come from your Y over to your team, I am somewhat familiar with the YMCA only swimming in our district. Many of the YMCA only swimming focuses totally on sprinting, because especially at the younger ages, that is all there is. The swimmers that have moved to our area, and swum with our YMCA/USA team are sadly behind. They may have as much talent, but because of the focus on all sprint, they cannot keep up in practice. If they stick with it, over time, they get better and keep up. That is why even though they do well in their area conference, once you get to the big state picture, they cannot compete with the swimmers who have put in the mileage. There was some extremely talented boys in last years and this years senior class. I am familiar with them, because the head to head competition with our boys(one of which was my son), and them through the years has been fun. But overall, that area of the state is weak in swimming and the HS sectional is known to be one of the easier ones.

Originally posted by seltzer I'm not sure about the "any coach can teach technique" statement, in my opinion this is the most challenging area of swim coaching, but wonder what you think USA swimming should do in the area to help coaches tailor swim training programs? BTW, I am aware that lots of people have written articles on this subject and coaches spend lots of time trying to figure out how to best accomplish this. The scientific literature also includes a number of studies on this topic. Its my experience that coaches try their best in this area but it is pretty complicated task especially when you are dealing with younger athletes that are still growing physically and mentally at very different rates. Hall made a number of points that are valid re training and specialization but also are well-known issues that many people are trying to address from a prespective of experience and knowledge that I'm not sure that he can claim beyond his experience as a swimmer and coach at the Race Club. I think that Hall's comments/suggestion re marketing of swimming are far more interesting and valuable than his personal opinions on how to train swimmers, other than himself. I agree that technique is one of the hardest things to teach. It is easy to send the kids up and down and get them swimming yards. But swimming them smart is another story. Many coaches are dealing with lack of pool space. In our age group program, when you have 10-15 kids per lane, it is very hard to focus on that technique, and the energetic 12 and under loses focus very fast if it is all technique. It is a talented coach who can intermix the yardage and the technique well with this age. I have seen coaches that are excellent at this, and I have seen coaches that I would like to go down and shake them and say, can't you SEE what all your kids are doing(I don't, because I do know how hard it is). Aerobic base, and technique are probably the two most important things to the 12 and unders(10 and under much more technique focused), and crowded pool conditions help neither.

Originally posted by craiglll@yahoo.com I really wondered why the article appeared. It, at first, seemed to me to have a very negative messafge hidden under a seemingly positive facade. Gary was arguing that it doesn't make sense to swim enormous distances in practice unless you're going to be a distance swimmer, and he gave three reasons why ignoring this principle with kids can be detrimental: 1) The key to swimming fast is to maintain a good, efficient stroke. When you make kids swim enormous distances, you effectively make it impossible for them to maintain a good, efficient stroke and end up engraining bad technique. 2) It takes a lot of time to rack up the enormous yardage some coaches require. This effectively makes it impossible for their swimmers to participate in any sport but swimming. Kids need to be able to experiment with other sports, even if they are ultimately going to devote themselves to swimming. 3) Because there are so many different swimming events, swimming bears some resemblance to track and field in terms of the kinds of skills needed to excel at the different events. Making enormous yardage a requirement for participation in swimming can effectively bar people from the sport who could actually excel at shorter distance events but who don't have the physiology required to endure enormous yardage. Gary admits that there are no easy answers to the problem, since coaches with large numbers of swimmers are going to have a hard time developing specialized workouts. But he also alludes to another factor that, I think, is even more of a problem: Developing swimmers usually don't know yet what their best event is going to be. What's needed is a program that will prepare every swimmer for every type of swimming event, so each swimmer can figure out which events work best for them. I gather that the article was not intended to provide a comprehensive solution to the problem. This first step in solving any problem is to clearly define what the problem is, and that, I gather, was the purpose of this article. Bob