Buying Athletes/Swimmers?

Disclaimer: I’m not really familiar with the details of “US college swimming scholarships” Nevertheless, I’ll wade in here at great risk, since I see no link between Schoeman’s college scholarship (I’m assuming he had one) and his Qatar (professional swimmer) decision. As a non-UK person having studied in the UK on an academic ‘fellowship’ (they pay you to study) which was sponsored by private (UK) industry, my own experience would indicate that there are a number of questions to ask in order to know if foreign sportsmen are taking away scholarships from locals. (I’m extrapolating a bit here, of course – I didn’t go for a sports scholarship – hell, you have to train! - yuck) First, you would have to look at who is awarding these scholarships. Some of these may be designated for foreigners up front and no local swimmer missed out. You also have to consider the incentives to the various players who want to have world-class sportsmen attend their local university program. Since world-class athletes from smaller countries tend to have high respect at home, have good contacts and move in influential circles, they are viewed favourably by the various scholarship providers/players listed below: 1) Governments: When returning home the students will be sympathetic and positive in future business deals to the country/state/city where they studied/swam. And, if they actually stay in the host country, they will probably be better than average immigrants. Even though I studied with private sector sponsorship, the UK Ambassador still wines and dines some of us foreign-based UK grads each year to keep British links going. I don’t think they would do this if there were no return. 2) Universities: Athletes returning home are quite likely to be successful in business and will contribute to the alumni coffers of the university where they had an enjoyable sports experience. Overseas grads are usually especially appreciative alumni and very generous. You may notice how alumni magazines feature overseas groups; there is a reason for this. 3) Swim coaches: If the coach can take an exceptional raw talent, tune it up to say, an Olympic medal, his CV will look a lot better and his job safer. Since only 2 swimmers from the US can be in any Olympic event, the coach can get more medalists/finalists out of his foreign trainees and increase his fame. All this to say there are many forces for some foreign content in universities that benefit many players in the short and long run. Professional sports are a whole other thing, which is what Phil is saying (I think) Ian

At an international meet this summer, (I think) one of the Texas Olympians, yelled to one of the US coaches (who was talking with some foreign swimmers during warm up,) something to the effect of, "Would you please stop recruiting (those foreign swimmers) and time me for a 50?"

Originally posted by TheGoodSmith However.......... take ONE dollar from NCAA allotted swimming scholarships at a school and you are effectively funding the success of other country's swimming program at the next Olympics. And here I was thinking a dollar doesn't go as far as it used to.

Here's my one comment on the situation: If Lezak, Crocker, Phelps and Walker trained with the four South Africans for a year and made a more level playing field, I bet the South Africans still would have won. They were just that good. The Americans just weren't as well prepared for the relay as the South Africans. From what I understand, the South Africans had been working on winning since 2002. The Americans probably didn't prepare for it until about three weeks after Trials. I understand John's desire to bring the 400 free relay back to the States, but the swimmers have to be prepared for it. I bet this is why they lost in 2000. The Australians weren't just going after Gary Hall's comments. They got together and got pumped up for it. The Americans were just cocky and too confident. When Klim set the world record leading off, they didn't know how to bounce back and win, like they could have. Just because someone's training in the US doesn't automatically mean they're better than you. They just have more to prove because they sacrificed a lot to get where they are. Take Stephen Parry, who almost took down Michael Phelps in the 200 fly. Coming from Britain to train in Florida was probably a big step, and he made the most of it. I say good for him, as well as good for Markus Rogan (even though he trains/trained at Stanford), Vlad Polyakov, Simon Burnett and others. As far as representing another country at an international meet, I think that's not a good idea. Duje says he will always be Croatian. What will he do when/if he wins at Worlds or Olympics and they play the Qatar anthem? Will he just play the Croatian anthem in his head? Blech.

Let ALL the foreigners over to the US that want to pay for their own college education and swim for the team of their choice. FACT: There are PLENTY of walk-on spots in EVERY Division I school for good talented athletes. No one will deny them participation if they have the cash to play the game, the natural talent and the brains to pass the entrance exams. However.......... take ONE dollar from NCAA allotted swimming scholarships at a school and you are effectively funding the success of other country's swimming program at the next Olympics. You are basically stabbing ourselves in the back at the end of every 4 year period. GONE are the days of the 1960s and 1970s when the US swept the medal counts in every event with 3 qualifiers for the Games. Gone are the days when we win every relay almost every Olympics. Personally, I want the 400m free relay at the Olympics BACK under US control ! PERIOD ! Forget the "lets all hold hands with other countries relay teams, and train their althetes and sing Kumbaya" We don't need to be training other country's athletes any more, let alone PAYING their way to a top notch Division I schools. Their countries can do it themselves. We get our asses handed to us in many other events at the olympics. Swimming is a golden nugget for the US and has been for many decades. Coaches that routinely grab swimmers from other countries without US citizenship are doing a diservice to US kids that work hard for the money and opportunity. Coaches that continue to recruit abroad are LAZY in my opinion and the points they earn at the NCAA championships from these foreign athletes should be ineligible. "N" stands for National..... not international in NCAA. John Smith

When did national pride and competition become a bad thing?

Excuse me. Since when did a discussion of COUNTRIES without a tradition of world class swimming hiring non-native swimmers to represent their COUNTRY internationally, morph into yet another discussion of U.S. UNIVERSITIES giving scholarships to swimmers who would continue to represent their native countries internationally? Two separate questions. We've chewed over the latter one quite a bit, but if you want to reignite that issue, go back to that discussion thread please. Continuing on in this thread merely confuses who said what about whom, and leads exhuberent slamming over comments no one really understands. Yes, yes, I know that all you folks who thought you were good enough to go to college for free because you were such awesome swimmers (here's a news flash: there are about 100 of you for every scholarship that was available at the time) were all very traumatized by one Bolivian who swam for a Conference rival, possibly on scholarship. However, please try to direct your angst to a discussion thread where the participants actually, how do I put this?...care.

Who said anything about national pride or competition? Anyone who knows me knows I compete and pretty aggressively, too, as well as being proud of my country (usually). However, I do not see why we need to create teams for sports of individuals, nor do I see how having a lot of good athletes has anything to do with the quality of the country, or anything to be particularly proud of. If it creates a false pride I do think that can obscure the real things to be proud of, or not proud of.

Matt S.... you're kind of crabby today.

More Swim Exploring: Roland Gimbutis is the latest swimmer being pursued by Qater. The value of the offer is a little low compared to what Duje Draganja got from the wealth and riches country. Read the story and you will see they are offering him $10,000 per month. There might be some major negotiating going on right now. Roland was part of the US Open/NCAA 400 Free Record setting relay that averaged under :41.95 per 100 per man. There time was the fastest by over a second of anyone in NCAA history at 2:47.70 and if Qater gets Roland it will have half of the 2005 Cal Relay. I believe the next recruit will be out of Coach Mike Bottom's camp and that would be Milorad Cavic from Serbia-Montenegro, who went the same time as Gimbutis in the relay at :41.87. Then if they can recruit someone like Peter Mankoc of Slovica then they can challenge every country in the world in the 400 Free Relay. It will be interesting to see if Roland Gimbutis accepts this offer or alters the offer. Judging from the aritcle it does not look like major funding is available so I think you are going to see another swimmer for Qater