professional vs. amateur swimming.

Originally posted by PeirsolFan Someone mentioned Michelle Kwan in this thread. Kwan wins most events she enters but is unable to get over not having an Olympic gold medal and so she refuses to turn pro. I think it's wrong, because it takes a spot away from a younger and possibly more deserving skater. Figure skating is completely different, though. When you turn pro in skating you turn your back on Nationals, Worlds and the Olympics in favor of show skating. You basically give up competing. Kwan obviously thrives on the competition and that's why she has remained an amateur. I just don't see that as "taking a spot away" from a younger skater.

Katie Hoff needs to what's best for her. I would like to see a more accommodating NCAA. It's a shame that a swimmer is essentially DQ'd from collegiate swimming by getting little pay check from doing a paid Speedo ad or clinic. At the University of Colorado they had a very promising football player who also happened to be a world class bump skier. Jeremy Bloom. Unfortunately the NCAA told him he couldn't play football if he became pro skier, two completely different sports. Anyway the NCAA/University monopoly makes billions off the Football and Basketball and quite frankly the colleges our getting off cheap by just paying the athlete just a scholarship

Geek, So you think I am belittling the sport by showing concern for its future growth and enrollment ........ nice .......... you've totally mised the target as usual. Swimmers going pro is great, the problem is the direction it takes the NCAA championships going forward. The meet is boring without Phelps, Peirsol & co.... As a parent of 3 USS age groupers, being a former age grouper, highschooler, collegiate and USS participant, a masters coach and currently a masters swimmer...... you think I want to degrade the world I have participated in so much of my life? Think again. John Smith

Yes, increased purse size and sponsorship contracts for elite swimmers is an obvious plus to the sport. The problem is the contract sizes don't compare to the contracts being signed in the Big 3. Hopefully the future will change this, and they will one day catch up to the Tiger Woods level...... although I doubt it will be soon. As it stands today, there's enough money to entice a college kid away from amateur status for a good living, but no where near enough money and promotional time to truly advance the sport in the media. My beef with it all ...... why do we really care about the difference between and amatuer and pro anymore? I don't get it. What is it that the NCAA thinks they are controlling in this amateur definition and lock down? Why do we care if a professional competes in the Olympics anymore? The whole thing seems grossly outdated, and it will eat away at the NCAA championships over time. John Smith

there's nothing wrong with swimmers going pro so what if they miss out on NCAA swimming NCAA sports are big business where athletes are paid a pitance the UT football coach makes $2,000,000 the men's basketball coach makes $1,300,000 the athletes get school, room, board, and training to keep some great athletes an extra year or two some schools buy injury insurance for their athletes who could go pro athletes in sports like swimming have a small window in their life times to capitalize on their talent, and it's precarious. they could get injured or some one could just become better. Golfers tend to have longer careers Congratulations to Katie she's done something only a fraction of swimmers get to do Ande

John- you're getting 'geeked'.

I'm trying to figure out which is worse.... an argument with Ion or Geek. John Smith

jeff, is it bling bling or ching ching ? ande Originally posted by Jeff Commings Having been a professional swimmer for four years -- though not at the upper tier -- I can say that the answer is definitely not. Swimmers are superstars in the sport of swimming. Never, never, never, never has a swimmer transcended the sport to the real world. Mark Spitz, maybe. Janet Evans, sort of. Michael Phelps, to some degree. Amanda Beard has taken this year to capitalize on her marketing fame. But outside the Speedo ads, I haven't seen her anywhere else. If anyone would showcase themselves as a "diva," I would think Amanda would be it. But swimmers fight an uphill battle. We're not on TV every week like the Big Three. The magazines don't usually advertise swimmers. Jenny Thompson's Got Milk? ad was great, but only came out for a breif period. I think I saw Pete Sampras' ad long after his retirement. Even Bart Simpson's milk ad had more visibility. Not to say it can't happen, but this isn't the sport for those looking to be rolling in the bling-bling.

This is a bit off of the swimming topic, but I profoundly disagree that a college scholarship has no monetary value and that poor, poor pitiful football and basketball players are so exploited by the wicked NCAA and their member coconspirators, er... institutions. This is nonsense from any one of a number of angles. You think college scholarship has no monetary value; talk to all the parents that save, scheme and obsess about how they will send their children to college. You argue that top flight athletes don't get an education. That may be true at some universities in some sports, but that is not the case in every school. Who picked the sports factory program where they got no education? Last time I checked, the NCAA has no draft. If an athlete decided to go to Whatsamatta U and failed to graduate because the team encouraged him to take blow-off classes, that was his choice. He and his family had options. Now let's take the big time programs that rake in the big bucks and even with lavish spending, it can still subsidize the other sports in the athletic department. (I am unaware of ANY university where the money programs make so much that it covers the AD, and refunds the excess to the University's general fund.) There is an underlying assumptions that fans pay big money because they want to see the current members of the team. That seems seductive, but let's be honest. As Jerry Seinfeld pointed out, we're not cheering for players, we're cheering for laundry. If a high school star decides to attend our hated rival, we'll hate his guts for next four years. Except for a few marquee players, we couldn't care less who carries the ball for dear old University, as long as he is better than the guy from evil empire University. And let's examine the marquee players, shall we? We love them because earlier in their college careers, when they were all freshman nerves and the whisper of a promise, they made big plays for dear old University, and we expect/hope they will do more of the same. We cheer for these guys because they are all wrapped up in our gauzy recollections of when we were students and all our fond memories of dear old University, and it makes us feel more important and like "winners" when these guys win championships and we can associate ourselves with them. Still don't believe me? Let me take the case from a minor money sport, womens basketball. Columbus OH used to have a womens professional team. Because it was a pro league, and there are generally fewer spots on all pro league rosters than there are spots on Div I basketball programs, I'm betting the Columbus pro team was substantially better than the Lady Buckeyes. Guess who drew higher average attendance, like three times higher. The Lady Buckeyes. It's NOT the individual players; it's the University. Chris Weber (in a rare moment of wisdom) was asked his rookie NBA year whether Michigan needed him to win an NCAA championship. His response was beautiful, "You don't understand. Chris Webber needs Michigan to win a National Championship. Michigan does not need Chris Webber to win one." Lastly, from our own parochial swimming point of view, arguing college football players should be paid is simply nuts. You think every football scholarship athlete needs a stipend. Guess what part of the University's budget will take the hit to pay for that. Hint: it won't be the head football coach's six or seven figure salary. Think Div I swimming is under budgetary pressure now; in the idiom of Keith Jackson, "WHOA NELLIE!" Wait until you see what would happen next. Anyone who professes to care about swimming and be concerned about it as a college scholarship sport, and then turns around and argues college football and basketball players should be paid, deserves to smacked on the nose with a rolled up newspaper for piddling in our sandbox. There, I feel much better now. Thanks for letting me get that out of my system Matt P.S. GO BLUE!

Who ever said Canada was a foreign country? It's more like an argumentative 51st state. John Smith