Freestyle Swimming Stroke

Thank you all for the wealth of information you have brought to this topic. You have given me a lot to think about. Bob - I will re-read Total Immersion to better understand their approach to the freestyle stroke. Dead Fish - I will also keep your comments about the marketing aspect of T.I. Clyde - thanks for your suggestions about keeping pressure on the stroking hand and Ande thanks for your comments on elite swimmers. John & Craig thank you for your ideas on the different stroke concepts for distance and speed swimming as well as considering the genetics of the individual. I will keep going with my swimming. Practise makes perfect. Regards - Johnathon

Originally posted by dead fish The main reason you see a slight catch up stroke with some elite swimmers is due to the length of the swimmers arms. The longer the arm the greater distance it has to travel. Thorpe for example takes about 1.4 seconds to complete the under water portion of his stroke. His recovery is about 6ths of a second, moving through air is much easier than water. He actually has to wait to finish his stroke. So the taller swimmers frequently have a slight pause in the stroke, a longer arm takes longer to complete the stroke. You rarely see the pause in elite level women. The catch up stroke is a good drill. But really should only be used as a true racing technique for a 6’ft 7’’ knuckle dragger, like Evil Mr. Smith. Most mere mortals should attempt to eliminate the pause, thus avoiding de-acceleration in the stroke. The constant pressure on the water as explained by the Good Mr. Smith is for most swimmers the best advice. As for T.I. great marketing! Fish do not swim on their side and neither should you! I don't think that your explanation for Thorpe's delay is correct, at least from what I've heard him & his coach say. The delay has more to do with his hand dropping down directly after the catch so that the hand and forearm are travelling together at the same basic speed and to strecth out the body. Remeber the hand pulling actually travels very little distance during the stroke. If it travels too far,it is slipping and losing speed. It also has so much to do wiht the efficiency of Thorpe's stroke technique. Efficiency can be learned very well with catch up drills and single arm-stroke drills. The recovery hand has a greater distance to travel if you slow down considerably. But because of rotation, it is moving with the body. There is a lot of debate about measuring hand speed. I know Councilman and some other coaches, at one, photoed swimmers with a strode light to record hand speed and pull direction (S-curve or straight back). This is the entire argument between TI & Swimming Fastest.

Originally posted by Johnathon I have been endeavouring to improve my freestyle stroke for some time and am now confused. I am hoping someone may have some advice.... I understand there are different techniques and suspect it is a matter of identifying what works best for the individual. I would be interested in other swimmers views and which technique they prefer.... Sounds like you are on the right track to me. Endeavor, and understanding of differences, will take you a long way. I agree with the bit about feeling the water, that is my main approach. Find the path of least/most resistance (see my web). The best article I've seen on front quadrant swimming is posted in the USMS technique section: Swimming in Circles , by Coach Emmett Hines. The "Strokes" category at Coach Hines' site also includes articles on stroke count, etc. I discovered recently that I've been doing front quadrant swimming in free long before I even knew what it was. Thoughts on the Crawl Stroke, by Marshall Adams is somewhat lengthy (much of which is too technical for me), but it includes a breakdown of Ian Thorp's technique. The single most fascinating nugget from this article for me is how long (1/3 of his total stroke cycle) that Ian takes to position his arm for the pull. This illustrates the slight pause in the front end of the stroke referred to earlier in this thread. I tend to do a lot of slowed down practice so that I can concentrate more on technique. Swimming Faster by Swimming Slowly, By Terry Laughlin illustrates this concept pretty well. My recovery is smooth and relaxed, with a very clean entry (i.e. little or no splash). It amazes me how many swimmers (especially guys) "attack" the water on entry. I can see this as a necessity when doing a sprint, but these people are swimming 100's of yards at a time (apparently training for triathlons). The thrash & splash technique I see a lot of folks using seems like a total waste of energy to me, especially on long distances. One exercise I occasionally practice is this: As I finish my pull I brush my thumb against my thigh. I try to see how far down I can touch while still maintaining proper (straight) spinal alignment. By this time my front arm is fully extended, with the leading shoulder thrust forward, and the trailing shoulder stretched back. I can get a good stretch from this leading arm all down my side (including lats and ribcage, much like the positioning for the catch in Butterfly). The key is to not over compensate and get the spine out of alignment, otherwise you start to wiggle and begin to loose your streamlining. I hear a lot of talk these days about "high elbows" on the recovery. While this is great, I watch folks sometimes and it seems they are missing the point and not lengthening their stroke. If you start your recovery by exiting the water elbow first you can't help be get the desired high elbow effect. By finishing your stroke completely, the elbow 1st recovery technique pretty much comes naturally. The elbow 1st recovery provides a really clean exit from the water. The arm is already against the side of the body, so there is less resistance to lift it. Combine this action with a smooth, relaxed entry and you get a "no splash" stroke. Swimmers who use this technique are going a LOT faster than they look to be going. I tend to enter the water with just a slight bend in the elbow (this picture on my web is a good illustration). I finish straightening the arm under the water as I begin the stretch, and the positioning of my shoulders, prior to the recovery (and the catch). If you look carefully at this image you will note that my pull arm is about 45º from the surface of the water and still in front of me (i.e. "front quadrant swimming"). Also, I'm motoring along pretty well here (at least for me anyway), without making big waves. For my entry I still occasionally use this idea: Imagine a hoop directly in front of you as a target. Try to put your arm through the hoop as your arm enters the water. Vary the size of the hoop, its distance from you, and its depth, until you find a location that is right for you. This suggestion given to me back in the early 70's (when I was in my early teens) by a school chum who was on a local team. I've copied most of this post to a new "Free" section on my web. Check it out if you want to see more images.

"Remeber the hand pulling actually travels very little distance during the stroke. If it travels too far,it is slipping and losing speed...... photoed swimmers with a strode light to record hand speed and pull direction (S-curve or straight back)." You know, just standing in the shallow end of the pool and stroking water straight back with our hands, you can feel the pressure initially, but as the water starts to move back with your hands, there is hardly any pressure. But as I slice the hand sideways, I can maintain that pressure a little longer till the hand comes out of the water. Perhaps with the curving stroke, the hands automatically find still water to push on, and with the accelerated straight back stroke, the inert water is actually surprised and provides the necessary temporary fulcrum to propel ahead? clyde

Actually if you time Thropes stroke and speed of his hand during recovery you will find I'm correct. You also see the same stroke style in many tall males, even as far back as Jim Montgomery. In one of Docs last talks he stated that what he thought he was seeing in the water wasn't quite correct. The “s” pattern happens due to the position of the hand in relation to the mid line. Since the body has some rotation the distance the hand is from the midline changes. At the entry the rotation is at it’s max so the hand appears to be close to the midline. As the opposite arm recovers the body is at it’s flattest and the hand appears to be farther away from the midline. In an ideal stroke the hand would stay in the same place and the body moves past the hand, just like when you get out of the pool by pushing on the deck, your hand doesn’t move your body but your does. Due to drag force not lift force. Most likely at slower speeds lift has more effect on propulsion and at faster speeds it is drag forces. Sculling vs. swimming. The other portion of this discussion was “drills” which TI is very big on. For learning “gross movements” drills are fine. But as a form of true training it has never been shown that what you do at slow purposeful effort has any cross over to improved fast performance. This is not only true in swimming but every other sport. The only way to master technique is focus on technique while swimming at race or near race pace effort. Drills are not the answer.

For learning to swim and basics drills are ok. Sometimes. But they will never get you to swim faster. You have got to train fast to swim fast. Personally I think the approach of programs heavily focused on drills is in response to swimmers who don't really want to work at the required intensity. There are no short cuts and the idea of swimming slow to go fast is just nuts.

Originally posted by dead fish Due to drag force not lift force. Most likely at slower speeds lift has more effect on propulsion and at faster speeds it is drag forces. Sculling vs. swimming... The only way to master technique is focus on technique while swimming at race or near race pace effort. Drills are not the answer. Now what about "axiel flows" and "generating and splicing vortices?" Is there some kind of towing product or harness to give swimmers this swimming fast feel?

I think it's just a matter if visual imagery to use the shape of a fish for explaining the roll of freestyle. Fish don't use the same type of propulsion as humans (arm extended in front and pull back) so it's a weak analogy to use fish. When I have a full roll, then my whole shoulder and part of my back are raised out of the water, reducing the surface area of drag. But it seems to me even that is not the most important reason for the roll. The roll gets me the longest and strongest pull I can get. Simple as that.

Hey Guv something fishy here. Have you ever watched a spin fish swimming they really roll.

Originally posted by dead fish As for T.I. great marketing! Fish do not swim on their side and neither should you! Most fish are longest in their front-to-back dimension and narrowest in their side-to-side dimension. The only way humans can achieve the same thing is to swim on their sides. Bob