Latest L. Armstrong controversy

Originally posted by hofffam I think the test of old blood samples was flawed and not based on sound medical or ethical processes. The tests were done on only one set of samples ("A" or "B", I don't remember which), and a test against the other was not possible. At minimum there is a "reasonable doubt" on the integrity of the testing process. I also believe there was inherent bias in the process because the testers WANTED to find positives for Lance. I won't say that I believe 100% that Lance has never used EPO. Of course I don't know anything. But Lance's association with Dr. Ferrari is mysterious enough to create some doubt. I also think a lot of people simply don't accept that Lance has been an exceptional athlete his entire life. His VO2 max is off the charts and he trains harder, has timed his training for peak performance at the TDF, and he uses technology (e.g. aerodynamics) better than anyone. In any case EPO was not a banned substance at the time. And they didn't test the entire TDF set of blood samples. I think Lance's history of ZERO positive tests over his cycling history is a powerful statement. I believe he has admitted to using EPO while he was taking therpy for his cancer. If I understand correctly, EPO can stay in the soft tissues for many years and testing isn't very accurate to determine when the drug was taken. Also, I think inner strength is highly over-rated when it comes to cancer survival. I know much of it comes about from really following doctor's orders, doing what you are supposed to do, and taking care of yourselve before hand. I've known extremely strong people who have lost their battle. Some of us do and some of us don't. Physical condition prior to the onset is one huge factor indetermining outcome.

Hoffman, Who cares anymore if athletes get tested a thousand times if the tests are not reliable, accurate enough or just missing drugs they don't know about yet. THG is an example of this. Athletes using this enhancement were passing drug tests over and over until some one turned in a sample to the authorities. Any more clearing a drug test doesn't mean you're clean. It merely means you've temporarily beat the test..... which as we have seen is at least 3-5 behind the abusers. John Smith

Thegoodsmith - I suppose it will be a chase forever - the testers will try to stay ahead of the dedicated cheaters. But are you saying we shouldn't try at all since we can't catch them all? In the case of TDF cyclists, EPO or other blood boosting substances are the ones of greatest interest because of its impact on endurance. Not sure if HGH is a big issue or not. I think the odds of getting caught increase with the number of tests, especially random. Unless the athlete has a foolproof way to beat the test it seems to me they take great risks during a competition like the TDF. Lance especially knows he is going to get tested a lot. Why don't they test Master's swimmers at nationals and the Worlds? Surely there are many Masters swimmers who would be greatly tempted to cheat their age with performance enhancing drugs. A fair number of Masters swimmers are physicians and could easily obtain some of these substances.

Originally posted by hofffam A fair number of Masters swimmers are physicians and could easily obtain some of these substances. Not exactly. Anabolic steroids are restricted drugs, and their use is regulated by the DEA. Any physician inappropriately prescribing these drugs can be prosecuted and lose his or her license to practice medicine. Administration of epo, hgh, etc. strictly for purposes of performance enhancement is unethical and would trigger an investigation by the state medical board (and subsequent loss of license). I'd venture to say that the vast majority of physicians would never consider doing something like this strictly on ethical grounds ("do no harm").

I'm more worried about excluding people who are on medication legitimately to treat illnesses health care professionals would agree are real. I agree with Gull (hold on to your hats; this doesn't happen often...) The potential consequences for docs are so significant, and the rewards for USMS, beyond personal satisfaction, are so slender, I can't see why we would want to do this. End of rehash. Return to your normally scheduled programming.

gull80 - you're probably right. But the Masters athlete is probably capable of obtaining whatever he wants - if he/she wanted to. I agree the vast majority have little reason to do so other than ego. I do wonder if so many people our age (I'm 47) are willing to have cosmetic surgery for vanity's sake that wouldn't they also do other things to swim faster/younger? I think drug testing Masters athletes would be an interesting exercise. I bet they'd find lots of Lipitor, diuretics, ibuprofen, etc.. I have hypertension and take a calcium channel blocker and ACE inhibitor; I also take Lipitor.

I must admit it...I do it...beer doping! The difference is that you take it after the event and it enhances your performance both in your memory and in your recounting of your exploits. Works for fishing too...

Who cares who is doping. Let them do what they want all I know is I am with Peter only IO prefer a beer before and after.

Originally posted by craiglll@yahoo.com Antibiotics, steroids all sorts of things. They are relatively easy to get. But are they anabolic steroids? If not this fact is probably completely irrelevent.

Originally posted by Paul Smith Did Matt Shirley actually just write a post that had only 14 words in it? We may need to test him cause I'm sure he's on something! Matt went to a small Liberal Arts college in Illinis. I also went to one. We are taught to write. He & I should be in a contest to see who has the longest post on this discussion htread.