Who do you trust for help?

I could be wrong, but I don't believe the top ten swimmers in my age group have achieved their success simply through drilling. Pianists don't need to worry about VO2max, lactate, etc. As for elite tennis players, they devote quite a bit of time to improving their cardiovascular fitness nowadays. Technique is important, no doubt about it; Bobby Hackett once said that he never swam a length of the pool without thinking about his technique. But I think you have to put in the yardage, some (a lot?) of it very fast.

Originally posted by tomhendersonfl it is certainly not a good idea to try and work on fitness and technique at the same time using the same activity. Your body does not imprint new muscle memory when you are tired. Instead, it reverts to old patterns. So if you work on fitness before technique, you are just imprinting bad habits that will become more and more difficult to correct the longer you do them. I have to disagree with you here. One of the myths I frequently hear from swimmers is that you can't build fitness while you're working on technique. That simply isn't true! Before I got into swimming, my primary form of exercise was weight training. In weight training, technique is also important, though for a different reason. A typical weight training program consists of a number of different exercises, each of which is designed to work out a different group of muscles. So if you don't do an exercise correctly, the effort ends up being borne by a different set of muscles than was intended, and the muscle group that was being targeted by that exercise ends up getting cheated. The three things that cause incorrect execution of a weight training exercise are (1) inattentiveness to how the exericse is being done, (2) using too much weight, and (3) doing too many reps. The reason why the 2nd and 3rd reasons so frequently come into play is because when the correct muscles can't do the exercise (either because they're not strong enough or because they're too tired), our natural instinct is to compensate by spreading the effort over more muscles (i.e., by cheating on the exercise). So weight trainers are taught to stop before it gets to that point. So how do weight trainers ever build their muscles? After all, I've heard swimmers say that in order for your swimming workout to be useful for conditioning, you have to push your speed and distance to the point where your form deteriorates. If you don't, you're not taxing yourself enough for your muscles to grow. The answer is that this isn't true. You don't have to push yourself to the point where your form deteriorates in order for your muscles to grow. Weight trainers prove this on a regular basis. I proved this on a regular basis back in my weight training days. You do have to push yourself. You do have to do a little more each week than you did the previous week. But you don't and shouldn't push yourself beyond what you can do with correct form, and you should never allow yourself to become inattentive about your form. And exactly the same thing is true in swimming. Bob

Originally posted by gull80 There are two different arguments here. I don't think anyone questions the value of TI-like drills for the novice swimmer who needs to develop technique. The more interesting argument concerns the competitive Masters swimmer who has a limited amount of time to train. Granted, swimmers at even the elite level work on technique, but what proportion of their workout is comprised of drills? And why are the words "mindless" and "yardage" always linked on this forum? A set of 10x100s @ En2 or En3 pace has a purpose. The words "mindless" and "yardage" aren't always linked in this forum. If you'll reread my post, you'll find that I also talked about "mindful yardage". It's a choice, and it makes a difference which one you pick. I agree that the percentage of time a swimmer should spend on drills depends on whether he or she is novice or elite or somewhere in between. But, as I also noted in my previous post, drills are not the only type of mindful swimming. Even if a relatively small percentage of your practice time is being spent on drills, all of your practice time should be spent swimming mindfully. Bob

Originally posted by gull80 There are two different arguments here. I don't think anyone questions the value of TI-like drills for the novice swimmer who needs to develop technique. The more interesting argument concerns the competitive Masters swimmer who has a limited amount of time to train. Granted, swimmers at even the elite level work on technique, but what proportion of their workout is comprised of drills? And why are the words "mindless" and "yardage" always linked on this forum? A set of 10x100s @ En2 or En3 pace has a purpose. My coach suggests, you can always drill when I call for an easy or moderate pace. Drill on warmups and warmdowns. Really, you can incorporate various drills any time youl're not doing 70%+ effort sets. He handed us a pamphlet with 101 kicking drills and said, get familiar with them, any time I call for 200 kick (or similar) I expect you will be incorporating some sort of a drill into it (unless I call for something specific). Each swimmer after a while learns what little things they need to work on, and can pick a drill that targets development in that area. For example, I love to warm down with a nice elongating catchup, fingertip drag or a salute drill. On a warmup I start with elongating drills, then go into some more difficult technique drills, while I have the energy. One armed fly and various undulation drills get my rhythm going. Also, throughout the week, our workouts are structured to have emphasis on different things, day one may be some emphasis on kicking, day 2 technique, day three aerobic conditioning etc.... You don't do the same target workout every day. It;s really hard to quantify in a single number answer how much drilling to do vs other things. In a well rounded training program it varies on daily basis. If one has limited time, then they do less of everything, rather than emphasize one thing at the cost of something else. One really can't take something as complex as swimming and try to boil it down to one magic formula of what to do.

Originally posted by PeirsolFan More very good points. Would you pay a coach more if they were ASCA certified? Only universities can afford them it seems. I would pay more and have more faith. You're right about not analyizing other swimmers too closely. What works for one person may not work for another. I learned another sport by watching someone else and guess what I picked up? A very precise very specific movement that only the two of us do. I lost my individuality which is something I'm striving to maintain in swimming. For example, my own coach has a masters degree in sports psychology, is ASCA Level IV coach, and in a month or two getting the level V certification (the highest there is), has about 25 years of experience of coaching etc Still has a hard time finding a masters coach position that allows a livable wage. Has to have it supplemented with private lessons, clinics and a 2nd part time job as a PE faculty at a local JC to make ends meet. It's little different for USA swimming coaches. But, if one wants to be a dedicated masters coach and run a team of their own, it;s difficult. For example, in our organization, kids pay $125 a month to swim 10 per lane. Masters pay only $55 a month to have access to any of the thre to four personally coached workouts a day, where they seldom have to swim more than 2 per lane, and have a lot more coaching attention then kids do. Also, the kids program has a lot more assistant coaches. Kids still don't get more coaching attention, you just don't get a single coach doing all 3-4 workouts per day plus 6 hours administrative work a day. But, can't hire assistants, or get a pay increase unless masters are willing to pay more for their membership.

I don't see it as an either/or proposition. I don't mindlessly swim a set of 100s or 200s; I think about my technique on every lap. And the time to figure out how to adapt when you're fatigued is not during a race but in practice. I like the Bob Bowman approach--some drilling that precedes the main set so that you can focus on one or more technical aspects during the set. What I see are a lot of tri's swimming back and forth doing countless laps of fish-like swimming drills.