U.S. Coach Is Suspicious Of China's Swim Program

Here is a link about what happened in the past on drugs. www-rohan.sdsu.edu/dept/coachsci/swimming/drugs/table.htm

I think Hansen was on target at the Olympics. My point is that if a coach is going to stand up and take issue with something and speak out, well, the time for that came and went.

There is an interesting commentary by Phil Whitten on Swim Info website in reaction to statements made by *** Pound and Sentors John McCain and Jim Bunning about how doping in sports is a serious problem and will be dealt with seriously, but its not criminal. Phil explains why he believes its criminal. You have to be a premium member of the Swimming World website to be able to read this.

What I believe is criminal is the organizations we have supported for years that turned their backs to this problem for a long, long time...and when anyone spoke one sentence about their lack of support...they got hammered....as posted in another thread here….. Granted...some of these organizations are now taking action against drug use.....but they let this go on for many years....and one can only speculate as to why$ I commend Phil for his commentary…..Job well done! And...on the anniversary of my 1000th post….I could not have picked a better topic to comment on.... if I’d of tried....

Tom, I'm down with most of what you have to say. However, I have one small disagreement. No, I don't think the usual USMS crowd is going to give dopers a free pass in world class swimming; no, I don't believe FINA and the IOC get a free pass in these discussion threads, and I would not agree at all that people who speak up about drugs and the alleged non-serious response to the problem "get hammered" in these threads. I would agree that those who level scurilous accusations based on no evidence get a hard time for their conspiracy mongering. The non-evidence cited earlier in this thread is a prime example. Put the shoe on the other foot. Do you want Dreyfusian smear jobs, like the latest cheap shot L'Equipe (aka L'Ecrap) leveled at Lance Armstrong, to be considered sufficient evidence of doping? Matt

cinc310, Do you really believe the USSR did not cheat? What planet are you on? Several Russian swimmers won medals using designer doping made for the Russian army. The drug wasn't on the banned list, the Russian cheats kept their medals! And always remember, in China, using banned drugs can still get you a bullet in the head. All their drug cheating is STATE sponsored and has not and will not go away. They kept their medals from the 1988 and 1992 Olympics, and they will cheat in 2008 again. *** Pound is a joke, as is Larfaoui. The only one I respect in this is Phill Whitten, the heads of the main FINA organizations are too political. I exclude Frank, can someone please post that photo of the Chinese womens Olympic team at the USAS convention several years ago, please.:p

I don't know if they are up to their old tricks or not. Their a authorian society that likes to be on top. In manufactoring, they have pirated US products and undervalue their currency to make Chinese products cheaper. But that doesn't mean that they will cheat in sports. Remember that the USSR didn't cheat in swimming while the East Germans did. I think it might be possible giving their background but like everyone states you can't prove that the chinese swim federation is doing it on a massive level again.t

And always remember, in China, using banned drugs can still get you a bullet in the head. All their drug cheating is STATE sponsored and has not and will not go away If that's ture, Chinese is cheating in any sports, not just swimming.

Originally posted by cinc310 In manufactoring, they have pirated US products and undervalue their currency to make Chinese products cheaper. That is very not ture. Chinese products are much cheaper because chinese labor is much cheaper. The averaged income per month for a worker in China is still below 100 dollars now! To make a same product, the factory pay much less to the worker in China than in US, that's why the product made in US is much more expensive. Please don't listen to those misleading reports.

Wayne, Tom, You do realize, of course, the circularity of your reasoning? "They are cheating because they have done it in the past, and as a closed society, they can get away with cheating on a systematic scale and no one blowing the whistle on them." OK, what's the evidence that they have done so recently? "There is none, but I know they do it because the people who are supposed to keep them honest are a joke and way too political, and did I mention that they are a closed society?" OK, but couldn't a lack of evidence also indicate they are honest? If the PRC is cheating with steroids and other drugs throughout their athletic programs, how well have they done recently in the sports that steroids and other substances help the most? Swimming, weightlifting, cycling, extreme endurance events? Don't get me wrong, you guys could be 100% right. I know the PRC was caught once. And, I made the same arguments myself 20 some years ago about the East Germans (including their "female" swimmers with necks like an Alabama nose tackle). BUT, assertion is not proof. Matt