There has been a lot of discussion since Athens about foreign swimmers training in the United States. Most of them attend U.S. Universities, receive athletic scholarships, and compete at NCAA's. Some notable examples include Duje Draganja (Cal), Fred Bousquet and Kirsty Coventry (Auburn), Markus Rogan (Stanford), and the South African sprinters (Arizona). Some train in the U.S., but don't compete for a university (Inge de Bruijn). All of these athletes benefit from U.S. coaching, from training with U.S. swimmers, and in some cases, from financial support provided by U.S. entities (athletic scholarships). They all turn around and then win medals for other countries.
A couple questions: 1) What do you think about this arrangement generally? 2) Is it of benefit or detriment to U.S. swimming to have these foreign athletes training and competing here? 3) Should we be giving athletic scholarships, which are a scarce resource in swimming, to foreign athletes who will represent their own countries internationally instead of U.S.-born swimmers who will represent us internationally?
I'm sure there are other issues, but these come directly to mind.
Former Member
Dennis,
I really appreciate your comments and perspectives. Thanks for enlightening me.
John,
So now we need special rules for "top tier" Division I schools? Just so an occasional Dutchman or Afrikanner doesn't train in the U.S. and on "our" nickle, and then wins a gold medal that "should" go to an American? Get real! This discussion has turned so abstract and disconnected from 99.999% of competitive swimming it is silly.
Matt
So we have been misinformed on all these posts about who really pays the cost of foreign swimmers training in the U.S.? I didn't know that OSU had the largest athletic budget. I thought it was either Michigan or Texas. But I might be getting that confused with alumni donors that make gifts/establish endowments to the programs athletic budget.
What I find interesting is that the three schools mentioned here all have very succesful football programs with huge stadiums to help there other programs. I don't have the figure off the top my head but I remember the ridiculously inflated figure the networks paid the NCAA to televise the NCAA tournament and the Final Four. I wonder if that money is going back to the schools in any way. This is a very interesting topic about where does the money come from.
Its too bad I didn't see this last week because I saw Bill Wadley at the Michigan/OSU meet last weekend and would have asked him about it. By the way, Bill used to coach Michigan State University many years ago. Maybe Kirk Nelson, who is a frequent visitor here swam for MSU back then when Bill coached.
I found it interesting at OSU has the largest athletic budget in the NCAA. I had always heard it was Stanford. Then again, it probably cost OSU a lot of money to bring Maurice Clarrett to that school and then subsequently bail him out of jail every weekend for a year.
Former Member
Where does this money come from?
Many who are not involved on a daily basis may have the misconception that: athletic departments who offer scholarships are using state tax dollars to pay for them; or that athletic departments do not actually pay the university the cost of each scholarship and instead that the university merely waives the fee. However, both assumptions are untrue for most institutions.
From Open letter from Bill Wadley, ASCA President
www.usaswimming.org/.../ViewNewsArticle.aspx
Originally posted by Frank Thompson
By the way, Bill used to coach Michigan State University many years ago. Maybe Kirk Nelson, who is a frequent visitor here swam for MSU back then when Bill coached.
Yes, Bill Wadley was the coach at Michigan State my freshman year.
Former Member
Holland or most western european countries you can be a good swimmer whether you swim in the US or not. Take Michael Gross about 20 years ago. He never wanted to swim in the US and he was very sucessful swimming in Germany with less yardage. Now muslem countries in North Africia, where a couple of Swimmers at the olympics came from, the best thing is to locate to the US in your high school years, which many of them do now and continue in college or post college in the US.
Originally posted by Frank Thompson
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What I find interesting is that the three schools mentioned here all have very succesful football programs with huge stadiums to help there other programs. I don't have the figure off the top my head but I remember the ridiculously inflated figure the networks paid the NCAA to televise the NCAA tournament and the Final Four. I wonder if that money is going back to the schools in any way. This is a very interesting topic about where does the money come from.
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The schools get money for just appearing in the NCAA tourney, not just the final 4. Each game they get, means more money. So should I ask Illinois to re-establish Men's swimming since they probably got a lot more money last year? :)
Originally posted by dorothyrde
The schools get money for just appearing in the NCAA tourney, not just the final 4. Each game they get, means more money. So should I ask Illinois to re-establish Men's swimming since they probably got a lot more money last year? :)
Not as much as my Heels got!
Originally posted by aquageek
Not as much as my Heels got!
Yep, and unfortunately both schools won't get near as much this year! But just wait, they may be back at it together in the future!
Does NC have men's swimming?
