There has been a lot of discussion since Athens about foreign swimmers training in the United States. Most of them attend U.S. Universities, receive athletic scholarships, and compete at NCAA's. Some notable examples include Duje Draganja (Cal), Fred Bousquet and Kirsty Coventry (Auburn), Markus Rogan (Stanford), and the South African sprinters (Arizona). Some train in the U.S., but don't compete for a university (Inge de Bruijn). All of these athletes benefit from U.S. coaching, from training with U.S. swimmers, and in some cases, from financial support provided by U.S. entities (athletic scholarships). They all turn around and then win medals for other countries.
A couple questions: 1) What do you think about this arrangement generally? 2) Is it of benefit or detriment to U.S. swimming to have these foreign athletes training and competing here? 3) Should we be giving athletic scholarships, which are a scarce resource in swimming, to foreign athletes who will represent their own countries internationally instead of U.S.-born swimmers who will represent us internationally?
I'm sure there are other issues, but these come directly to mind.
Former Member
I would further qualify my argument to say...If they are going to stay and become a US citizen...by all means a scholarship is in order! If not, let their country pay for the training.
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
"and should give that money to USA swimmers that will represent this country in the BIG SHOW!
....just ask any top ranked college swimmer in the USA what his or her ultimate goal is "in swimming"....and I bet dollars to donuts they tell you...TO SWIM IN THE OLYMPIC GAMES!
This is the part I really don't get -- why to you keep saying to give the money to US swimmers that will go on to the Olympics. The swimmers that have a shot at the Olympics will get scholarships. You can't argue with that.
There are maybe 10 new scholarships a year (each men / women) going to international swimmers -- the US "replacements" for these scholarships would never make the US Olympic team. The choice for the university is to either give a scholarship to a French Olympian going 43.0 in the 100 Free or to a US swimmer going 45.5 (and the closest he will get to the Olympics is his French teammate).
The other thing that bothers me is that US colleges would have the obligation to "promote America". Their focus is eduaction and that's what it should be. First of all -- it's not your money to spend -- it has been given to the university. They feel it is a wise investment to give a scholarship to the very best athletes in the world (not in the US -- in the world). And second -- America is by far the best country in the world in swimming -- are you still bitter about losing the 4x100 Free relay. Even though all the South-Africans winning the realy train in the US -- NONE of the dutch, who got 2nd train in the US.
Also - I think you should kick out Jonnty Skinner, Sergio Lopez, and Jon Urbancek - I don't want any foreign coaches promoting America by making American swimmers faster. In fact US swimmers coached by foreign coaches should not get scholarships -- they had an unfair advantage -- they are foreign. While we are at it -- take away the medals from Lenny -- he was not born here either -- he did promote the US by becoming a citizen, but he has an accent, so that does not promote American language.
Also -since somebody did asked -- I came here at age 19 (instead of 18) on a swimming scholarship -- because I had to complete my military service.
I feel as though I am whizing in the Ocean to raise the tide here...
I am done posting on this thread....and I believe each to his own thought....
Next!
EHOCH....WHO? And I say WHO? Again.....ever said anything about the US Citizens you quoted getting kicked out of here? Besides you, for the sake of an argument that you are losing! I welcome people from everywhere on this planet to come train here!!!!! Always will!!!! I've been all over this world fighting for those rights of people to come here and live the American Dream. I welcome them with open arms! But, don't put my hard earned tax money up there to eventually support another countries Olympic team. Is that really so hard to understand? Or isthat just the difference in opinions? I think it is a difference of opinion, so please don't call me or any other American bitter because we want what's best for our country.
Again, Geek....where in any of my threads did I say I wanted to limit competition in college? Where? I welcome them anytime they want to come!
I DON'T FEEL I OR YOU SHOULD PAY FOR IT!
Let them come all they want...but give those scholarships to our own...whether they have a shot at the Olympics or not is irrelevant...after all...they are there for an education right?
Originally posted by Matt S
Does anyone have any idea who Bud is and what his previous contribution, if any, to this discussion thread might have been? I've scanned about half the 15 pages hanging off of this thread, and I haven't spotted him once.
Matt
So what's the point?Are you trying to say that the more you say, the more right you have to be listened to?Any post has its value and just because he posted once does not mean he did not follow the entire thread and dod not have his view on the matter...
P.S. Way to go:let us judge people's views by how many times they've tapped into a thread...
Tracey, how exactly is your tax money involved if USC or Harvard gives a swimming scholarship to a South African? I'm assuming you pay taxes to GA (or perhaps some other State if you are active military stationed in GA). Please tell me again, how do decisions by the University of Minnesota swim team affect your tax bill?
Aquageek, you have raised another excellent point. Assume for the moment that not every U.S. swimmer with potential to get a scholarship has a realistic shot of making the Olympics. (I think that is a very solid assumption.) What is the best method for improving the U.S. scholarship swimmers who do have a realistic shot? Is it adding more U.S. citizens to the NCAAs--people who they will trounce without too much trouble? Or, is it regular competition against the best in the world? You seem to argue the latter, and I'm inclined to agree.
Finally, what is so special about being almost, but not quite, fast enough to beat out the foreign competition for a swimming scholarship? These folks were rewarded for being faster than anyone else in their swim league, period. No style points or compelling life stories were factored in. Why is it they can't live with that same rule now that they are on the other side of the cut line?
Matt
Matt, as a matter of fact...I was born and raised in SoCal. I live out here on the other coast now since retiring from the U.S. Army 2 and a half years ago.
Can somebody tell me a College or University that is totally self sufficient? And does not rely on Federal Funding of some sort? I am sure there is one somewhere.
And Matt...I would ask you as well....where, anywhere did I say to limit the number of foreign swimmers in the NCAAs? Where? Never did, never will! It's like talking to a wall!
