There has been a lot of discussion since Athens about foreign swimmers training in the United States. Most of them attend U.S. Universities, receive athletic scholarships, and compete at NCAA's. Some notable examples include Duje Draganja (Cal), Fred Bousquet and Kirsty Coventry (Auburn), Markus Rogan (Stanford), and the South African sprinters (Arizona). Some train in the U.S., but don't compete for a university (Inge de Bruijn). All of these athletes benefit from U.S. coaching, from training with U.S. swimmers, and in some cases, from financial support provided by U.S. entities (athletic scholarships). They all turn around and then win medals for other countries.
A couple questions: 1) What do you think about this arrangement generally? 2) Is it of benefit or detriment to U.S. swimming to have these foreign athletes training and competing here? 3) Should we be giving athletic scholarships, which are a scarce resource in swimming, to foreign athletes who will represent their own countries internationally instead of U.S.-born swimmers who will represent us internationally?
I'm sure there are other issues, but these come directly to mind.
Craiglll:
I just went to the ASU swim site because I was curious what the % of foreign swimmers were to the total team. On the men's team there was 1 foreigner out of 26 on the roster and he was a freshman. He didn't look to have significant international experience. On the women's team 2 out of 27 were foreign swimmers and both of those swimmers swam in the Olympics for there countries. Agnes Kovacs swam for Hungary and was the gold medalist in 2000 in the 200 *** but got 4th at this Olympics. The other swimmer was Florencia Szigeti of Argentia who swam two events. In the 100 Free took 28th with a :56.71 and in the 200 Free took 25th with a 2:03.29. Significant? I don't think so because there are a lot of USA womens swimmers that could easily do those times. On the other hand Kovacs is a world class swimmer and has been for a long time and was on par with Beard and Kirk thru the years.
My opinion is that I don't think there will be any changes in the future regarding foreign swimmers that attend US Universities, receiving athletic scholarships, and compete at the NCAA's. The swimmers do benefit from US coaching, training with US swimmers, and competing in high level meet competitions. Then went the World Championships or Olympics come along they represent there home countries instead of the US where they train. This has been going on for 60 years and I don't see any change because of the history of this being done and no one having an issue with it. The NCAA, AAU, USA swimming actually create opportunties for this with US Open Competitions thru the years.
The first swimmer that I can remember was from Australia and swam for the University of Michigan back in the early 50's. His name was John Davies and he was an Olympic gold medalist. Rumor has it that he wanted to swim for the USA but the USOC did not want him to do so. He became a US citizen and is a Federal Court Judge. You can read about him at www.johndavies.com This is an example of someone that could not swim for the USA. Another example is Lenny Krayzelburg. He was not a US citizen when he started training with Mark Schubert at USC but became one and actually swam for the USA in the Olympics. These are 2 examples and I am sure there are countless others like this. I have read so many stories about swimmers with dual citizenship and some swim for the USA and some don't.
When I think of great swimmers in history that have swam for USA colleges but not the USA, the list is big. For example: Murray Rose, Jon Konrads, Kevin Berry, Juan Bello, Hans Fassncaht, Gunnar Larson, Santiago Esteva, David Wilke, Jonny Skinner, Mark Kerry, Anthony Nesty, and Martin Zubero just to name a few. Almosty every famous NCAA coach has recruited foreign swimmers and it was never an issue until recently. Now I know a lot of these people above were before the Title 9 days and there were more scholarships available so the % of foreign athletes was probably smaller. But I think that we have done it so long that I think it will be hard to change. Plus the USA has been so strong in swimming than any other country, that it never became an issue.
The only way I see it changing is that more foreign swimmers will go professional and go on the World Cup circuit. But if the coaches have skills to recruit those swimmers than I see it not changing. I think its a fact of life that foreign athletes like American sports programs. Look at the NBA and you see it happening there. I think the San Antonio Spurs have 5 foreign players on there squad.
My opinion is no one is entitled to an athletic scholarship. The scholarships should go to the fastest and most talented athletes regardless of their country of origin.
Citizenship is a heck of a lot more than paperwork.
It's very difficult to follow this thread. We start talking about foreign swimmers in the US, which was enjoyable.
I was trying to point out that foreign skilled (read white collar) labor is substantially cheaper than US labor. I also know there are many companies that offer foreign labor in the US for much cheaper than standard US labor rates.
I have no expertise in the area of Russian swimmers in the UK or foreign dishwashers, nor what that has to do with US college scholarships.
You are awfully tough on America, which is the best thing going.
Dima:
If you want to talk about foreigners who come here, it is a well known fact that these immigrants send a significant amount of money back to their families at home. Inflow of American money is massive in foreign countries from families with US workers.
It is absolutely no hit on the Russian ecomony especially when you consider these folks make more money here than in Russia, send a significant percentage home and are EMPLOYED in their desired field. How can this be any detriment to Russia? If Russia feels they are losing so much, close the borders back down and realize the incredible benefits of an underemployed white collar class.
I don't understand what you mean by Mexican dishwashers. I have no knowledge of the dishwashing profession. I can assure you there are huge differences in wages paid to foreign workers versus US workers, for skilled professions.
