There has been a lot of discussion since Athens about foreign swimmers training in the United States. Most of them attend U.S. Universities, receive athletic scholarships, and compete at NCAA's. Some notable examples include Duje Draganja (Cal), Fred Bousquet and Kirsty Coventry (Auburn), Markus Rogan (Stanford), and the South African sprinters (Arizona). Some train in the U.S., but don't compete for a university (Inge de Bruijn). All of these athletes benefit from U.S. coaching, from training with U.S. swimmers, and in some cases, from financial support provided by U.S. entities (athletic scholarships). They all turn around and then win medals for other countries.
A couple questions: 1) What do you think about this arrangement generally? 2) Is it of benefit or detriment to U.S. swimming to have these foreign athletes training and competing here? 3) Should we be giving athletic scholarships, which are a scarce resource in swimming, to foreign athletes who will represent their own countries internationally instead of U.S.-born swimmers who will represent us internationally?
I'm sure there are other issues, but these come directly to mind.
Might I suggest if you are no longer enjoying spending your precious free time swimming and consider it warlike toroture activity, maybe you should find a more pleasurable way to spend your time. Might I suggest protecting our beloved public institutions from their suicidal tendencies.
I will tell all the youth on our swim team that swimming is no fun! It is worse than war, it should be terrible! After all, sports is all about not enjoying oneself.
Kellen Winslow, Jr referred to college football as war once also and was universally lampooned. He then signed a multi-million dollar contract, what a war wound! Then, he bought a motorcycle, not a good idea in retrospect.
So, just so I get it, obtaining a free education, including housing, food, books, etc and being allowed to do what you love is really just like being a prisoner of war. I actually have family members who were in a war, not a war as you describe as going to college for free, but a real war where there are guns and death, and I can assure you that college life is a touch easier, in their opinions. I also train with a bunch of former D-1 college swimmer at big time universities. I've never heard them complain about their college experience. Matter of fact, they seem to think their "prison sentence" was actually fun. They wear their college training as a badge of honor, not some war wound.
Your encouragement to high school athletes by describing a coveted D-1 sports scholarship as being the victim of a war crime sure is motivating, well done sir!
And, for further clarity, the suicidal demise of American higher education, universally regarded as the best in the world end-to-end, is due to us giving a few dozen or hundred top tier international athletes scholarships.
Who woulda thunk it - college life is like being in a Vietnamese prison camp and American colleges are committing suicide by having an international and diverse student body.
Sports is a leisure time activity, war is not. I don't think your son, if he's good enough for a D-I scholarship, will be turned down for a foreigner. That's far fetched. Any swimmer who can get a D-1 scholarship can probably go to any school they want.
Funny how liberal democrats these days want to close the borders but republicans believe in free trade, patriotism and a free market economy. I guess we shold probably set up another gov't program to dictate who goes to college and who gets the scholarship cause that certainly works well. Makes me wonder why I'm still a registered democrat.
Good Smith:
If only US kids should get US money, should we exclude making foreigners pay property taxes since property taxes, for the most part, fund local education?
And, just because an athlete doesn't thank the US in the 15 seconds he's interviewed post race, does that mean he/she isn't greatly appreciative? Maybe the next time someone who trains in the US but wins a gold medal for a foreign country is interviewed post race, they shouldn't thanks their parents or coaches but take the time to sincerely thank US taxpayers. I know that's who my kids will be thanking in the event of athletic success.
It still cracks me up that people refer to sports as war. Sports is a cakewalk, not war.
If competition and winning have nothing to do with a well rounded campus, why do all universities place such high emphasis on extra curricular sporting activities? Why even have IM on campus?
Former Member
As a foreigner it sounds selfish when I hear people here whining about foreign swimmers.That is how the world is set up - the best will get the contract, pretty simple!They have something to offer and they will be offered a scholarship in exchange...I mean you want to be all fair but close your eyes on America "buying out" the best "brains" in different fields for its own economical growth.Heck, just from my home country Russia an estimated 100000 fine scientists(!!!) are working in the US contributing TONS to America!!!Are Russians whining about it?Well, actually, yes, because it is painfull to see your best to go and improve another country .But should they whine?Heck no!!!If those guys were provided with the living(money) US has to offer they would have never left...So America is using the rest of the world pretty darn well(which I have to admit is very smart!!!), so let's not talk about what's fair and what's not!And besides - NCAA would be nothing and would not draw as much attention if you couldn't recruit the best of the best!
P.S.Whining is for losers:if a US swimmer was better than his foreign counterpart he would have no problem getting a scholarship over that other guy!So keep on working rather than whining, that's what those guys who got scholarships did...
Former Member
"There are hundreds of millions of dollars of scholarships that aren't used every year so these few swimmers aren't denying anyone an education. "
NOT IN MEN'S SWIMMING IN THIS COUNTRY....SHOW ME ONE DOLLAR IN NCAA MEN'S SWIMMING THAT IS NOT USED....and I WILL WEAR A MOOSE SUIT TO WORLDS....A PINK MOOSE SUIT AT THAT....!
Former Member
"Just don’t get us started on Title 9"
And a loud Amen to that ~
Former Member
Yes I want the money I pay in taxes (states and federal) that goes to colleges or universities and to grand/scholarship programs to support American students FIRST ! But note when I said you take care of your OWN first, I also said THEN you help others.
I also want the money I give to my alma mater to be spent in a way I agree with. As a matter of fact the last time UGA called to solicit a donation I earmarked my money for minority scholarships rather than specifying my donation for my graduate department (as has been my custom) because I disagree with the direction my the department has taken in the last few years.
I feel for others around the world who can not afford to attend an American university without support, but I'm sure there are insitutes of higher education in most of their countries they could afford to attend, or attend for free. There were a lot of colleges and universities here in the US I couldn't afford to attend when I was in school, so what did I do? Demand the world give me an education that it owed me? No, I found one I could afford to attend and PAID MY OWN WAY THROUGH SCHOOL BY WORKING TWO PART TIME JOBS AND BORROWING MONEY. Least you think I have no idea of what it means to be poor........ when I moved to Athens to attend grad school at UGA, I was a single mom with 300.00 to my name AND no job prospects.
Scholarship money, whether it is academic or athletic, should go to Americans first. If there is money left over, or perhaps as Rob suggested a small percentage of all scholarship money, should be offered to foreign students.
Lainey
Former Member
wow, I love this place...
Former Member
Bill of Rights ? Oh heck yes....let's make that apply to EVERY PERSON ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH....heck, I stand corrected....let's open the borders and let anyone come here....also, while we are at it....let us send all our jobs offshore to help other countries, lets give free aid to everyone and still have millions go hungry here in the USA....let's give what LITTLE scholarship money we have to anyone... from any place....The heck with taking care of USA Swimmers....give the entire store away....Americans do not need rights, jobs, scholarships or rewards for years of hard work in this country….
