Foreign swimmers training in the U.S.

I continue to be amused that the exact same far right crowd that wants to close the border also consistently votes against a living minimum wage. What do those people think attracts illegal aliens? It's the low paying jobs Americans won't do because of the crappy minimum wage that can't support a family. Talk about bankrupting! So, if you want to take this arcane and economically ridiculous step of closing borders, do it for all nations that feed the US people, not just the poorer onces, get off your kiester and support paying Americans a living minimum wage so this problem doesn't continue to grow. You can't have it both ways.

Originally posted by Tom Ellison "Funny how liberal democrats these days want to close the borders but republicans believe in free trade, patriotism and a free market economy. " Hold the fort here folks....I am way out there on the right....and I think/believe we should CLOSE the borders.....and fast! Why on earth should we continue to fund, pay for, support illegal aliens that are bankrupting most of our border states....and...at the same time create security risks beyond our wildest imaginations? Tom, I agree with you.... with one clarification. I don't support complete closing of the borders. I support CONTROLLED immigration. I applaud anyone who wants to improve their family's conditions in life. I just don't want them walking across the border at will.... in .... out .... in ...... out..... Somehow, this must be controlled better. And don't get me started about those who want to allow people to vote without ID. I believe proof of citizenship should be required to vote. And I am amazed there hasn't been another terrorist attack here since 9/11..... And how is it that Vincente Fox can get away with allowing his country to need to milk off of others like this - instead of improving his own country's economy....the whole thing is frustrating to me. I just feel like neither the republicans or democrats want to take that step. Neither is willing to alienate the growing hispanic voter base. And for the record, I am a registered independent. I vote in every election. I do vote right considerably more than left. Oh, and on the original topic - I don't have a problem with foreign athletes in our country - scholarship or professional. (If they are here legally.) I figure I can see the best compete that way.

You've all covered pretty much everything already, but I just wanted to add from my personal experience (the only one I've got) at UC Berkeley that the foreign swimmers (I don't know if they received scholarships or not) were not only excellent swimmers but also extremely intelligent students way in the upper percentiles. I don't think CAL would have recruited them otherwise. We loved having them in the water with us, bringing with them not only different swimming and training techniques but also their home cultures and, what blew my mind, language skills! When I saw Duje Draganja in Athens wearing a CAL swim cap for his races I thought "how cool! he's swimming for his country's team, but he's acknowledging the university where he's training!" I can understand that seeing USA money going to foreign athletes can give you a twist in the gut. But I'm all for going international in schools, pools and boardrooms. If USA universities want to pay foreign athletes to attract them to their schools ... what are you going to do? There must be a payback for the universities, otherwise, I don't think they'd do it...

"Funny how liberal democrats these days want to close the borders but republicans believe in free trade, patriotism and a free market economy. " Hold the fort here folks....I am way out there on the right....and I think/believe we should CLOSE the borders.....and fast! Why on earth should we continue to fund, pay for, support illegal aliens that are bankrupting most of our border states....and...at the same time create security risks beyond our wildest imaginations?

Originally posted by geochuck What is the concern, it's been going on since I was a kid. The colleges want their teams to be the best. All of my Canadian friends swam in the US. My brother for U of Maryland, Mike MacLaughlin U of Michigan. Gerry MacNamee USSC, and many others in every state. No scholaships were available in Canada. No waiting list in the USA but no one can afford an operation. If everyone who needed an operation were counted the lineups would be very long. I can see my doctor any time I want and don't pay. George, if I am not mistaken, Canadian taxes are higher than the US - at least at the federal level. You may not be paying for it directly to the doctor/hospital, but you are paying. And here in the US, if something is controlled by the government, it becomes less efficient and therefore more expensive. I don't know about the Canadian government. I don't think the US system is perfect. HMO's drive me up a wall sometimes. But I don't think the Canadian system is perfect either. I guess the best way it to not get sick!;)

Originally posted by hooked-on-swimming Oh, yeah, and about health care - well, I think America needs to be able to figure out how to provide a good health care program to its citizens first...How many people are on the edge of bankrupcy because of "the perfect American healthcare"?Just so that you know in a lot of countries it is government funded and you will not be charged for being treated... Yes, lack of affordable health insurance is a significant problem for many Americans. That having been said, unlike other nations, we do not have waiting lists (six months or more) for bypass surgery or hip replacements. And no one can be turned away from an emergency room due to lack of money (federal law). If socialized medicine is the answer, why are other countries now exploring privitization?

Good Article on this topic is at www.csmonitor.com/2005/0329/p01s03-ussc.html

OK, using the the word "idiot: was over the top and I aplogize. However some points of clarification: - botterud: I did not use that as a reference to people who disagree with me, I'm used to that! f you take the time to read my post carefully before replying you would see that it was a reference to people who changed the thread from a discussion about scholorships for foreign swimmers to a one about anti immigration, racism, etc. - aquageek; read my message and answer any of the questons that I raised. Happy to go into detail with you on my politics one to one anytime. When those same countries that pay US taxes start offering full ride swimming scholorships to US citizens then I'll be open to returning the favor here. - hooked on swimming; again read my message carefully (did I call everyone an idiot?) and answer the questions I brought up. I never said anything about other countries not having illegal (research my message a little more carefully before you reply) immigration problems, however do any of them "subsidize" the problem in any way similar to the US? Does th University of Moscow provode swimming scholorships? Point is this, there are "x" number of swimming programs at colleges in the US and fewer scholorships and I beleive that those should first and foremost go to US citizens. Other countries have scholorship prgrams to support their athletes swimming for US programs (we had mulitple French, Mexican & Swedish swimmers who swam for UCSB and all had their way paid by their governement).

Both Arizona and A State have huge foreign student poplulations. And not just in Sports.

As I've Written before, of all the alies in this country permanently, the one most likely to be here illegally is a citizen of the UK. Some foreign companies do pay US taxes. Mitsubishi does and I think BP does now that they have bought gas stations. I believe any company listed on US stock exchanges must pay appropriate taxes also. Also, US universities should never have to worry about how their program fits into US swimming. they should worry about how they aare educating its students. I believe the national average for all entering Freshmen to graduate is either 66% or 88%. I used to know the number but it has slipped my mind. then look at athletes and their graduation rate. Even swimmers have a relatively low ghrad rate. After all Cincinati one year graduated no athletic scholarship students, regardless of the sport and sex. I think the year was 1997 or 1999(?????).