Strokes and Heredity

The next time I see Wayne I will take him up on his statement that a good flyer can be a good breastroker. I can swim a 200 yd fly in about 2:08, but was *very* pleased when I managed to finish a 200 *** in less than 3:00 (and this was *not* "somewhere between 0 minutes and 3 minutes" -- more like 2:59.5). I am closer to the Piersol body type (than I am, say, to Wayne's body type), if it does make any difference.

Phil, Have you had a good coach work with you on your breaststroke? Do you work on the breaststroke underwater pulldowns? Because a good butterflyer like yourself should have a great pulldown. When you swim a 200 yard ***, how far do you actually swim? When I am in shape and feeling good, I swim breaststroke 80 to 90 yards out of a 200 ***. The rest is the start and 7 turns, and those LONG pulldowns. A 2:08 flyer should be about 2:30 more or less 200 ***.

Most writers comment that up to 65% of the power in *** comes from the kick. i.e. at most 65% of the power comes from the kick or between 0% and 65% of the power comes from the kick. Sorry, I couldn't help myself, "up to X%" is a pet peeve of mine.

Coaches and writers often talk about power, all I care about is the distance covered. In an breaststroke cycle of pull, kick and glide, most swimmers go less than 2 feet forwards during the pull. The remaining 5-7 feet is covered by the kick and glide. Body position and streamlining means more than pure power. So the real question is, How far do you go during the kick and glide? Do your knees extend down and stop you dead in the water?

Originally posted by LindsayNB i.e. at most 65% of the power comes from the kick or between 0% and 65% of the power comes from the kick. Sorry, I couldn't help myself, "up to X%" is a pet peeve of mine. I did not mean what I think you believe me to mean. When I have read articles and books on *** stroke or listened to coaches, they generally state that they believe most power comes from the kick. Individual, different coahes have stated that the power can be up to 65%. Some coahes say less than 65%, some say 65%. I didn't mean anywhere from 0% to 65%. Sorry if I was not clear enough.

Originally posted by breastroker Do your knees extend down and stop you dead in the water? Yes, they do! What could I do to keep them from slowing my down? ;) Brgds Matthias

I am just as bad as other writers, I have said " 90% of the power from the kick comes from the last 6-8 inches!" How's that for generalization. I deal in theoretical ideals, what would be the perfect stroke etc. Ideally 90% of the power would come from the ankle snap! Matthias, kick breaststroke on your back, if your knees are coming out of the water at all, then concentrate on pulling the heels to your butt. Also spread the knees apart some.

Something tells me you guys need help. When you say you get to the flags, that is not very far:rolleyes: The lane lines are 5 meters out from the wall, usually the lane lines are the same distance. The latest rules 107.13.2 specify 5 meters! Most male breaststrokers in the Olympics cover 10-12 meters off each wall. Remember the first 2 to 3 seconds you will never swim as fast as you push off the wall. You should be near 6-7 meters before the pulldown even starts. In our old pool, there is a line down the center distance at 12.5 yards. When I am having an especially good day I can reach that line at about 3.5 seconds and then beging the pulldown and kick to the surface. Scansy and others, do you breathe the first stroke up? MOst non breaststrokers kick to the surface, take a BIG breath, and then begin the stroke with the pull, kick and glide. Breaststrokers will begin the pull outwards scull before the head breaks the waters surface. We then pull very hard to lift our head to get that first breath and start the stroke. Breathing before the start of the pull will slow you down between one and two seconds per length. Now if you read my articles on my web site, I want my swimmers to not breathe at all on the first stroke up. You can gain a half second by not breathing, there is plenty of time to breath on the second stroke up:D

Good or not, all my coaches have tried. My other three strokes are pretty solid (top ten times in all three, though the freestyle ones are marginal) so the desire to add IM to my event list has always been attractive. But I remember one 200 LC IM I swam, ahead by ten meters after the backstroke, and watched the whole field pass me before the next wall . . . I don't think I take breaststroke coaching very well, however. In order to not be disruptive to my lane, I often do a butterfly kick during breaststroke -- that way I can keep up. Oddly enough, good breaststrokers don't understand how I can go faster with the butterfly kick, and I can't understand how it could be any other way. I tried to follow Wayne's kick advice that he has given in other threads, but my coach saw me and told me to get my feet out more: "it looks like you are doing a bent-knee butterfly kick with your toes pointed out." I think my pulldowns are pretty good. I come out well past the flags, and when swimming breaststroke in practice I am usually ahead 1/3 of the way from the first push off. It does not last. A couple of days ago I did a set where, if I could break 40 seconds for a 50 ***, I could stop swimming *** (that is great motivation!) I couldn't get close, and swam all ten fifties ***. *not* a good way to start the day :rolleyes:

Hmmmmmm... let me think about it. I definately breathe on the first stroke. I need to work on that. I guess I do it because I always feel like I am desparate for air at that point. I probably just need to force myself to hold it for another stroke. In time, it should become easier. I paced it off one time, and it was about 8-9 yards where I came up for the first breath. Maybe I'm not getting everything I can out of my pushoff. Maybe I pull down too soon and then start to stroke too soon. One problem I have is that after the start and then the first turn, I can no longer pull down and get an effective kick before breaking the surface - I am just gassed and need a breath. And of course "effective kick" is relative for me. I don't have an explosive kick at all. More like a fire cracker as opposed to a stick of dynamite. Unfortunately, I am self coached - which is an oxymoron. Wayne, if you are ever in the Philly area, I'd love to have just one workout worth of tips. I'll buy the wings and beer afterwards!:)