What Is Wrong With Swimming??

Here's an idea that might be interesting: use a formula like the IPS to rank each swim at a meet and sum the points to come up with team scores instead of or in addition to the point scores based on placements. Under such a system all the swimmers would contribute to their team score and their personal score would reflect their own performances rather than their performance relative to who else is at the meet. As an analogy, consider marks in school: would you want a marking system based purely on rank rather than individual achievement? There is a place for awards for ranking highest but those not in the top ten shouldn't necessarily become zeros. Times provide one way to measure individual results but an IPS-like formula can be applied over different events. IPS Calculator There are drawbacks of course, but I leave identifying them as an exercise for the reader :)

Originally posted by Kipp Somebody had made a statement that these kids are forced to do what the coaches want or how they set up the program..No kidding, that's why they are the head coach of an established program...what they do seems to work for everybody, not just little Johnny (what's Johnny gonna do in the real world when the Boss comes knocking?). I believe it's the parents who have to change..not the sports, not the kids.. the parents need to get tougher! If you consider swimming to be a product and the child and parents as customers you aren't going to increase sales (registrations) by telling the customer that the problem is not in the product it is in the customer! Granted not all products are suited to all customers and you don't want to degrade a good product to appease a non-target customer but if your goal is to halt the decrease in registrations you need to address the desires of your target customer base. If the goal is to teach life's hard knocks lessons parents can probably find lots of ways to teach those lessons that don't require as many early mornings or hours per week. It seems to me that even if children were the same as they used to be and parent's goals for their children were the same as they used to be that the number of parents who are in a position to make the sacrifices necessary to support a kid through a traditional swimming program might be decreasing while the number of easier alternatives is growing. Since this is a masters swimming forum it might be interesting to contrast the masters swimming format with the age group swimming format. What are the differences in the programs and to what extent do those differences reflect differences in participants and goals versus differences in historical approach? Why isn't age group swimming more like masters swimming? Would the 99% of age group swimmers who will never progress to elite levels be better off in a masters style program?

As a swim coach, what I've try to stress to my swimmers is for them to do their best - at practice and meets. This summer, some of my girls finally had an epiphany--they realized that winning without competition or without a best time, was not as satisfying as coming in 2/3 but swimming a best time! Olympic team numbers 52 - all the rest need to be satisfied with doing their best, but not losing sight of their end goal (which may or may not be the Olympics). I've got an 11 yo working for the 2012 O's and and a 17 yo just looking to make a college team and qualify for NCAAs (she will). I have say tho, that although parents need to take a hit, either for unrealistic views of little Suzy's abilities, or for their lack of trust/respect for the coach THEY pay (digression alert: If you don't trust me, don't respect my coaching abilities/philosophy, please leave the program and find the one that fits for you ...), kids ARE different than we were. Many kids want/expect instant gratification -- and are not ready/willing to work for something that may take some time and energy. This is just something we, as coaches, have to work through. A bigger question is how to keep boys in the pool after they turn 12... (for another time)

Goldsmith's article certainly discusses a topic that needs to be discussed. But, I disagree with his statement that "I didn’t have to think much to write this article". The truth is that he sometimes needed to think more than he did. First, are kids different today? Well, I've worked with kids for more than a quarter of a century, and my perception is that the kids of today are busier than I've ever seen them before. Whether they need to be is another question. Goldsmith says that "Numbers of registered swimmers are down". Compared to when? I've been to a couple of summer swim league meets this summer, and there were plenty of kids. But when I was a kid, I didn't even know where to find a swim team. In fact, I was in junior high before I even knew that there were such things as swim teams. Every high school in my area appears to have a high school swim team, but that wasn't true in my day. My high school now has both a swim team and a hockey team. They had neither when I was there. He also says that "Kids all drop out of swimming when they turn 15 to concentrate on school." It's not just swimming. I used to do volunteer work with a youth organization that worked exclusively with high school kids. But now they've expanded into junior high. One reason is because they found that high school kids - particularly the older ones - were increasingly becoming unavailable. Many of them were getting jobs or were tied up with school activities that took up too much of their time. And now let's consider some of the aspects of swimming that he claims are "unique": "Swimming is an outstanding sport. It is a pure sport – little or no equipment required. Just athletes, swim suits, some goggles and add water!" Well, that's what it has tradionally been. But to an increasing degree it's being sold to people that you also need a $200 or $250 swimsuit that covers most of your body and is "slipperier than your own skin". And this trend is likely to continue unless/until the governing bodies decide to ban it. "Swimming teaches life lessons that create great people not just great athletes." And swimming is "unique" in this? "Swimming teaches teamwork. It teaches confidence and self-belief. Athletes develop goal setting abilities." It's hard to imagine a worse argument for swimming than to say that it "teaches teamwork". Swimming is a form of individual competition that has been converted into a team sport. About the only thing in swimming that is team oriented is the relay races, and even there it could be argued that what you really have are 4-person mini-teams. "They learn how to overcome adversity. They learn how to strive for excellence. "They develop values and virtues like integrity, honesty, humility, courage and discipline. "They learn about health, physical fitness and nutrition." And this is truer of swimming than it is of other sports? That rash word "unique" rears it's ugly head again. "Swimming prepares athletes for life." Well, there's one way in which it does: Swimming is the only sport I can think of in which participants from a wide variety of ages compete together on the same team. Most kids live in a world in which they are segregated based on age, but that is not going to be true once they enter the workplace. So, in that sense, being on a swim team is a good preparation for life. "There is nothing – nothing -- a successful swimmer can’t achieve in life." Nothing at all? ;) I will concede this: In swimming, more than in most sports, people set seemingly impossible goals, and then achieve them. Some even medal at the Olympics! Oh, excuse me. I got carried away. As Goldsmith notes, "Less than 1% of swimmers ever make it to a national team. Fewer than 1% of those ever win a gold medal at a major international championship." So we shouldn't be encouraging our swimmers to set loftly goals and then to try to achieve them. If they do that, they may not succeed, and then they may decide that they are failures in life. So let's encourage them, instead, to accept the fact that they are probably never going to be more than mediocre, and to concentrate, instead, on just having fun. That will prepare them for life! :rolleyes: "Swimming saves lives – learning to swim can save your life and the lives of people you love." True. "Swimming is non-weight bearing exercise that is great for joints and cardio-vascular fitness for all ages." Here, he's touched on what I think is one of the most important arguments for swimming: It is a sport in which people can reasonably hope to participate for their entire lives. Only a small fraction of the kids who play high school football will be good enough to play it in college. And only a small fraction of those who play it in college will be good enough to turn pro. And for those who aren't good enough, it's basically over. But that's not true for swimming. Goldsmith then makes some suggestions for changes to training schedules. To his suggestions, I'll add another: • Why not train fewer hours, but make those hours more effective? A high school swim coach named Art Aungst has authored a book titled Long Strokes in a Short Season (which is available at http://www.totalimmersion.net) in which he tells how he replaced his yardage-based training program with a program that was based, instead, on building technique. His swim team grew because swimmers who hadn't been able to able to commit the amount of time needed for the yardage-based program were able to commit the lesser amount of time needed for the technique-based program. And the performance of his team improved rather than declined. I'm puzzled by Goldsmith's list of the things he thinks are "normal" for most sports: • The child is constantly active and moving. I recently went to a baseball game in which a kid I knew was playing. He only played for about half the game. Even when he was "playing", he was only on the field when the other team was at bat. The rest of the time, he was in the dugout unless he was batting (which only happened twice). And when he was on the field, he spent most of his time standing around waiting to see if the ball would come to him (which it rarely did). • The game is over in 40 – 90 minutes. I think the baseball game lasted more like 2 hours. That's about how long most high school and summer swim league meets last. • They can usually watch the game from the sidelines for nothing in the local park. I've never had to pay to watch a swim meet, though I've usually had to pay to get into high school football games. I've only heard of them charging people to watch the really big swim meets. • They only have to watch the one game – the one their child is involved in. But it's rare that their child is playing all the time. The bottom line is: Swimming isn't all that different from other sports in this respect. Now, let's consider his suggestions for how to improve things: • Why not meets for backstroke only? Or only distance events? Or only medley? Doesn't sound productive. It's generally better to have one big meet than lots of little meets, because it cuts down on driving time. • Why not meets for 6-9 year olds only and only hold the meet for 2 hours at maximum with all kids swimming 5-6 times? • Why not events for 16-18 year olds only? The lack of age segregation is one of the benefits of swimming I noted above. Also, many families have kids of varying ages on the swim team, so age-segregated meets could simply mean that they have to go to more meets. I know a family whose boys are into baseball, and they face this problem all the time. • Why not more fun events? Why not? • Why not events where the total results of the team and club are the only ones that count? Total results are already being counted. What benefit could there be in not recognizing individual accomplishments? • Why not encourage swimming more events by not counting any one event but only the combined total time from swimming in all events in the age group? It certainly makes sense to make some kind of awards based on which kids earn the most total points at the meet. • Why not have the meet going all day, but 6-9 year olds in one two hour block, 10-13 year-olds in another two hour block, and 14 years and older in another block of time, so pool space booking is efficient, but everyone does not has to stay all day? The only thing that would concern me is that this might erode some of the team spirit by saying, in essence, "You don't need to be around to encourage your teammates." In my experience, meets that actually last "all day" are rare! • Why not provide other activities and entertainment for families with more than one child attending the meet? Why not? • Why not provide age related prizes for competitors rather than just ribbons or medals to all age groups? Do you think there's an age at which kids don't like getting medals and ribbons? I would suggest giving gold, silver, and bronze medals to the top three swimmers in each age group, with ribbons to the 4th, 5th, and 6th place swimmers. It costs a little more, but makes the experience more memorable and makes more of the kids feel like winners. And here's a suggestion of my own: • If you're going to have an all-day meet, why not combine it with a Masters meet? The adults can be timers for the kids' part, and the kids can be timers for the adults' part. This should help kids to realize that there's no age at which they will ever have to stop competing. And it could help to make competitive swimming more of a family affair.

I'm definitely an outsider looking in to this discussion. But I'll go ahead and state my case. I never swam as a a kid. We lived near a pool where I spent many hours goofing around and was one of the few kids who could swim underwater "all the way across" (25 yards) on a dare. But I never swam on a team of any sort, nor did I swim laps. A fewyears ago I took up swimming as a 28 year old man and have been a part of several teams. I really enjoy swimming and can honestly say, it has changed my life. But what did I do when I was young? Played basketball. For hours a day. Every afternoon in the driveway for hours, just passed the time shooting hoops with no particular purpose. But practice was only 2 hours day. We had no swim teams at the time, but if we had the thought of going to practice twice a day and the first one being at 6 am would have been a non starter. Wouldn't have even considered it. In fact I have since come to realize after a few years of swiming that I seem to have a knack for it and would have had a very good chance to get a college scholarship with it. However, even knowing that; I wouldn't do it if I had the opportunity. 4 to 5 hours a day is too much. And I am ready to take up the mantle as the person who wants to talk about late blooming swimmers ad the vo2max values thereof!

More dual and triangluar meets would short the meet time and provide great racing as well as a great team atomosphere.

First of all I totally agree with Coach Kipp's thoughts. Too many parents and kids want to dabble in everything rather than really focus and excel at a few. I played three sports in high school and even more when i was a kid but I was always a swimmer first. By the time I got to college I chose swimming over football even though football would have given me better scholorships. I had great success in swimming earning All-American honors multiple times. This happened because of the hard work and DEDICATION I put in as a child and teenager. I didn't train hours at a time as a kid but I did show up every day and put in my time. As a coach, I don't see this as much any more. I have had so many great experiences through swimming, traveled all over, made great freinds and learned how to win and lose because of swimmings focus on placing. I hate losing but it happens and I still use what I learned in swimming when it happens as an adult. If you lose, you need to accept it and think about why you lost. Was it preparation, anxiety, nutrition, sleep or was that person just plain better than you? Everbody can't win but everybody can try to do better and that is what swimming does better than any team sport. As far as the meets go, it's the number of participants not the events that make a meet long. Distance or sprint focus would help but putting a cap on the number of entries per event would help. You never see 20 heats of the 400 IM or 200 fly.

Well, I agree that there are too many sports that kids do now. In the 1970's, the only other sport most swimmers did was water polo in some parts of the US. I didn't really get a chance to play that because it was all boys in high school and AAU water polo had a handful of teams for women. Also, back in the 1970's women's high school and college programs usually workout less yardage than the male programs. So, girls and women in order to be half decent had to a AAU age group background or at least a novice summer league background. Now the programs are equal or in some cases favor the women, so swimming on a club team is less important. Girls or women still develop earlier than guys in the sport, so going more to high school and college programs doesn't always help female swimmers since they can go to the olympics at 15 or 16 more so than male swimmers and need to swim prior to high school in order to reach the elite level. There are exceptions like Rachel K but more girls are like Miss Hoff.

Emmett, What a truly nutty, brilliant idea! I am organizing the alumni swim meet for my old college. I figured I'd do a simple sprint pentathalon format, but this seems so much more interesting. I'll check with the coach and see if he has any problems with doing something like this. We did a couple of other things in St. Louis Masters (aka SLAM, great abbreviation) to spice up our meet schedule. Like a lot of USMS "teams," we are an umbrella organization for several different clubs and workout groups in our area. It gives us the ghost of a chance of being able to form a relay. (In the 2002 LCNs SLAM fielded 200 mixed relays because I recruited my father and my sister, both living in Pittsburgh, and we filled out the relays with a couple other SLAM swimmers.) What we wanted to do was revive a little of the rivalry among the SLAM workout groups, and our friends across the river from Illinois Masters, to make our meets more interesting. We simply asked everyone to ID their workout group, and we had a menu with write-ins accepted. We then scored each event by age group similar to a college dual meet (individual events 5-3-1, relays 10-6-2). As it turned out, the key to "winning" was to recruit as many swimmers as possible, since most age group-events rarely went 3 swimmers deep. However, that was partially the point. We wanted to create incentives for more SLAMers to come to local meets. The other idea we used to add a little fun to the winter Mile Meet (a 1000/1650 meet clearly needs something) was to give it a theme. We called it "Open Water Swim in February." I put out the meet fliers using this faux-Jamaican accent. Prior to the start of the meet, we had an ugly Hawaiian shirt/tropical costume contest, with a local swim shop donating some been-on-the-shelf-for-months, white elephant items to give as prizes for the costume contest. Some swimmers brought their children just to compete in the costume contest. We also served gatoraide mixed with pinapple juice, and pineapple chunks on toothpicks. I think some of our stuff is still up on the web site www.swimslam.org Question about your touch-pad "workout" meet. Why couldn't you sanction it as an official (if screwey)meet? Matt

Matt - great ideas! Masters meets need to be kicked up a notch as well. Here's something we tried successfully last year and we'll be doing it again this year. I've simply included the meet info below. It's a fast, fun way to get some close team competition.... ================================================= H2O Girl Scout Cookie Pickup Dual Mock Meet - Sat May 8 ================================================= This is the 2nd installment of our new pickup dual meet format. There are SOME CHANGES from the first installment, so read on. You need only commit part of a morning, rather than a whole day, to participate. It's different! Get over it! Sign up today! Details follow (PLEASE read the whole announcement carefully before you enter as this REALLY IS different and we don't want you to enter if you can't HANDLE different!): --------------------------------------- ENTRIES --------------------------------------- Advance entries will only be taken by email. First come, first served. Entries will be limited to a maximum of 30 to keep the meet of short duration. Simply fill in the following and hit Reply (all entries will be acknowledged, upon receipt, by email). Be sure to read the EVENTS and RANKINGS topics below BEFORE you fill this out. Name: Date of Birth: Age: Sex: Ranking: (hint - the rankings are different than last time - see below) Favorite Events (see EVENTS below) 1: 2: 3: 4: 5: You DO need to list 5 events above - blank spaces may be assumed to be 200 Fly :) ------------------------------------------------------------------- What the heck does "Girl Scout Cookie Pick-up Dual Mock Meet" mean? ------------------------------------------------------------------- "DUAL" - This means there will be only TWO teams, "Team 1" and "Team A". We will NOT go by USMS team affiliations. Rather, we'll assign each entrant to one of the aforementioned teams. "PICKUP" - This means the teams will be assigned after all entries are in with an eye toward having roughly equal teams - we'll try to equalize sex, age and ability distributions across the two teams - a bit like kids choose up teams on the playground, only the Meet Director will do the choosing. Each team, once chosen, will decide which swimmers will swim each of the events offered. "MOCK MEET" - This means it's an unsanctioned, unofficial, informal, bare-bones, low overhead, no-frills, no-t-shirts, no-officials-anywhere-to-be-seen opportunity to get up on the blocks with some other like-minded people and go fast against the clock! We'll swim real races using the Colorado Timing System with horn start and touchpads but, technically, this is a USMS "practice" rather than a "meet". "GIRL SCOUT COOKIE" - The winning team will get an assortment of traditional Girl Scout Cookie favorites to share among themselves. The losers get nada. -------------------------------------- EVENTS --------------------------------------- We will NOT necessarily offer all events in this meet. Instead, we ask you to list the 5 different events you'd MOST like to see offered in the meet (in order of preference, favorite event first). All standard SCY events EXCEPT 1000 and 1650 will be considered. HOW MANY events we actually run in the meet will depend upon the number of entries. WHICH events we run will depend on popularity according to the entries. There will be only one heat of each event. However, very popular events may occur more than once in the event lineup, and each occurrence will be scored separately. For instance, if the 50 free has loads of people who want to swim it then it might show up as the 3rd event, then again as the 7th event and maybe again as the 14th event. This would allow more people to be able to swim it. There is no guarantee you'll get to swim the events you want - your list on your entry simply gives us a guideline by which to select the events that will be offered. BUT, at our last meet everyone had an opportunity to swim their first-choice event and NEARLY everyone had opportunities to swim their 2nd and 3rd choice events as well. While we offer no guarantees, between the lineup we offer and the way we'll encourage teams to assign events, the likelihood of you being able to swim two or more of your favorites is quite high. The list of events will be announced on meet day. --------------------------------------- RANKINGS --------------------------------------- So that we might distribute ability levels evenly, we ask you to rank yourself on the broad spectrum of Masters swimmers (NOT within just your sex or age group). In an 8-lane pool where the fastest people swim in the higher number lanes and the slower people swim in the lower number lanes, where would YOU be swimming? SAILFISH - definitely Lane 8, I head straight for the fast lane BLUEFIN - Lane 6 or 7 (maybe even 8 if the others are too crowded) Pretty Fast SALMON - Lane 4 or 5 - Middling Fast DOLPHIN - Lane 2 or 3 - Not so fast PIKE - definitely Lane 1 - Slow but steady --------------------------------------- COST --------------------------------------- $15 paid at check-in - checks made out to H2Ouston Swims. If you enter, then no-show, you'll be expected to pay anyway. --------------------------------------- ENTRY/CANCELLATION DEADLINE --------------------------------------- Midnight Monday prior to the meet - We need to have a minimum of 20 advance entries by then to make this event viable. If we get that, then we'll continue to accept advance entries till noon of the day before the meet, up to the entry limit of 30. You can cancel, with no obligation, until Thurs prior to the meet. We'll collect entry fees on the day of the meet. Please do not enter unless you actually plan to show up and participate. We'll consider your email entry as a commitment and uncancelled no-shows will be expected to pay anyway. No deck entries allowed. --------------------------------------- ELIGIBILITY --------------------------------------- Only 2004 USMS Members (if you are not registered in Gulf, you must bring your USMS card for proof of current registration). --------------------------------------- TOP TEN AND NQTs --------------------------------------- Because this is not a sanctioned meet, times swum will not count toward Top Ten or National Records - but they WILL count toward USMS Nationals Qualifying Times! --------------------------------------- WARMUP/PRACTICE --------------------------------------- H2O has it's normally scheduled Sat morning practice from 7-8:30am. All meet participants are welcome and encouraged to participate in the H2O practice prior to the meet. We'll have several lanes available for free-form warm-up throughout the 7-8:30am period. ------------------------------------------ MEET DAY SCHEDULE ------------------------------------------ Check-in & Warm-up begins: 7:00am Teams and Events announced: 7:00am Check-in closes: 8:30am Team Meeting Period: 8:30 - 9:00 (or earlier if teams are finished picking events) Turn in event assignments: 9:00am First event starts: 9:05am ------------------------------------------ MEET FROMAT ------------------------------------------ On meet day we'll announce 2 teams, chosen with an eye toward even ability, sex and age distribution. Each team elects a pair of team co-captains and chooses an original team name. Team then has a limited time to sign up for the events they wish to swim according to the following rules: 1) No person may swim more than 4 events 2) No event may have more than 4 swimmers from one team 3) No person may swim the same event twice (even though the same event may appear in the lineup more than once) 4) Co-Captains have final say on event assignments (with strong focus on making sure each swimmer gets to swim at least a couple of the events they really want to swim). ---------------------------- TIMING/COUNTING ---------------------------- CTS5 Electronic timing will be used. Swimmers wishing for backup should ask a teammate to man the back-up button and stopwatch supplied during their swim (this is STRONGLY suggested as there are MANY times in meets where the back-up times are used, and without a back-up time you have NO time). For the 500, lap counter paddles will be supplied - each team must furnish people to wield said paddles to their teammates' advantage. ------------------------ SCORING ------------------------ The meet will be scored such that every swim earns points. Scoring will be by place only, NOT by sex or age group. (Seems unfair, I know, BUT when we assign the teams we'll shoot for similar age and sex distributions on each team so it should work out pretty fairly.) ------------------------ RULES ------------------------ Applicable 2004 USMS Rules will be in effect. However, there will be no officials so this is strictly on the honor system. You will be honor-bound to DQ yourself if you break the rules (what a novel idea in 21st Century America) - think "Boy Scout". ------------------------ RESULTS ------------------------ Times/Splits for every heat will be posted immediately after each event, barring timing system malfunctions. They'll be posted by swimmer name, event and lane. ------------------------ PRIZES ------------------------ Winning team gets an assortment of traditional Girl Scout Cookie favorites to share among themselves. Hey - I said this was a no-frills meet. ------------------------ FINAL NOTES ------------------------ Our goal is to have the meet portion of the morning completed in under 2 hours total. With each installment of this meet we'll tweak it to make it better! Your comments are welcome and encouraged!