I am SOOOO Mad!

Originally posted by aquageek New Bern is the only town in America without a Starbucks but gull80 is serving fancy latte's after practice so who cares. Actually we do have the Trent River Coffee Co. where Ed, the owner, knows everyone by name and remembers their favorite beverage. Small town America--you gotta love it.

I have the same problem for awhile. then I just made sure that I swam when the Aquatic Director wasn't at the pool. I asked the guards & if no one else is in the lanes, they let me use the blocks. It is a weird olicy. and it is suppose to be upheld at all Y's. I've experienced it in almost every Y I've ever swam in. In the 80's the Corporate Y in downtown DC was terrible about it. They almost took my membership away. Craig J.

10 years ago I bought my soon to be wife for her first visit to Britain. I had been living in Vancouver, Canada for a while, which was one of the first cities that Starbucks moved into. We had almost as many Starbucks outlets as Seattle. So anyway, there I was fluent in the strange "American/Italian" language used in Starbucks to order a drink, and knowing more about coffee beans, blends, brewing methods than most I knew. We were on a trip through Wales and we stopped in Llandovery as we saw a sign " Ti a Coffi Siop ", which is Welsh for Tea and Coffee shop. We felt that this would be a good stop. We ordered two coffees at the counter. We than watched, frozen with shock, as two white polysterene cups were placed in front of us, filled with a spoonfull of Nescafe instant coffee, and hot water from a kettle was poured in. Then some Carnation white creamer powder, was added, and stirred with a plastic spoon ! We were asked for £1.00 each ( $2.00). I could not say a word, I meekly handed the money over, and we left. The coffee was, of course, undrinkable and they ended up in the trash. Thankfully, now in Britain you can get good espresso coffee in most places. Hey, i drink my beer ( Guiness ) ice cold, thank you.:) ;)

Spilled coffee sounds aquatic related to me. 'over 190 degrees' is pretty damn close to 212 degrees, as hot as the water can get. If I were selling a product I would be very concerned about accidents that can occur during ordinary use. That is why products have safety features. I would also be aware of what people who buy the product expect from the product. If I am selling coffee at a drive through, I know that drivers, with their attention on something else besides the coffee (like driving) are not expecting scalding hot coffee. I also know that spills will occur. And, if I have been repeatedly told that people have been hurt by my unusually hot coffee, I would understand that scalding hot coffee, cars, and reasonable spillage are a combination that damages people. I would stop selling very hot coffee -- not because the spillage is my fault, but because I am a good citizen and do not want other people to be hurt. To do otherwise would be irresponsible, especially if I sold several hundred thousand cups of coffee a day. Insurance companies do not make most of their money by taking in more premiums than claims they pay out - instead they invest the premiums and get a return from their large amount (a necessary amount if they need to pay more than they expect) of reserves. If the return on the investments decline, they will make less money and have to answer to their share holders. Thus, when the returns on stocks and bonds decrease, they are forced to raise their premiums to make it up. This is their right in a competitive market and perfectly reasonable. What is not right is to blame rate increases on the politically acceptable target of trial lawyers. There is *far* more correlation between malpractice insurance rates and bond prices than between malpractice insurance rates and the net cost of trial judgements.

Originally posted by mattson The case was not about spilling a beverage, but the consequences of the spilling. This makes no sense. How can something be about the consequences of spilling if something is not spilled in the first place? We aren't talking skin sloughing acid here, this is coffee, intended to be served and consumed hot. What about hot fries? You can't eat a fry fresh from the fryer, same with a Big Mac, too hot. What if this lady had dumped her super sized fry container on her lap and burned herself? The avoidance of personal responsibility, the new American way.

Comical. First of all, in the US, if you are a coach, you know that every kid on your team has signed a waiver of liability for you, the facility and the organization. Maybe McDs should require customers to acknowledge that the hot products they serve can burn a person. If you won't sign the waiver you eat uncooked nuggets and cold coffee, no ice, you could choke on that. What if the ice were too cold and stuck to your tongue? McDs has no duty to walk you to your car, take the lid off and insure no one jiggles your legs causing spillage. I'd like you to tell me one single food product that is served hot that cannot burn you. And we wonder why we can't dive off blocks, off diving boards or play sharks and minnows anymore (the greatest pool game ever invented in the dive well).

Mon ami Messeur Chertoff, I'm almost inclined to take your comments personally, but won't. I have not been talking about Saturday Afternoon open swimming - rather I have been talking about times reserved for adult lap swimming when the youngsters are not even allowed in the pool. An argument analogous to yours would suggest that giving someone a driver's license means we have opened ourselves to drivers going 160 miles an hour whenever and wherever they want to. We ameliorate the risk of auto accidents not by outlawing cars and drivers but rather by establishing traffic laws. When those laws are adjudged by our society as being too stringent, we change them (hence we no longer have an across the Board 55 mph speed limit). I am suggesting that we can craft a set of rules for qualified and trained adult swimmers using starting blocks at appropriate times and places that ameliorates the risk to others that y'all are so concerned about. For example, let me demonstrate my competency to a certified team coach once, and then be on a list of people who are approved to use a designated starting block during designated times in accordance with designated rules, rather than only be allowed to use the blocks when that coach who is required to be present should actually be necessarily more concerned about the kids who are part of the program she is hired to direct and oversee.

Comical is failing to see the difference between a 1st degree "hot fries" burn, and a 3rd degree "hospital and skin graft" burn. These passages in the article are why I think the temperature *does* make a difference. "Before trial, McDonald's gave the opposing lawyer its operations and training manual, which says its coffee must be brewed at 195 to 205 degrees and held at 180 to 190 degrees..." "...it takes less than three seconds to produce a third-degree burn at 190 degrees, about 12 to 15 seconds at 180 degrees and about 20 seconds at 160 degrees." Their coffee was brewed 20 degrees hotter than the highest temperature listed in this thread (180 in the pot, by AquaGeek). A 10 degree drop in temperature increased reaction time (to avoid 3rd degree burns, let alone painful 2nd degree burns) from 'll try to stop posting here. :) Geek has already said that McDonald's could serve molten lead coffee, and liquid nitrogren beverages, and he would have no problem with that.

I don't understand your continued insistence that this woman deserved to collect damages and that someone deserves to be sued. Being sued isn't a matter of deserving. I can't undstand how McDs was supporting dangerous behavior. Wouldn't the dangerous behavior be drinking coffee in a car? I guess it comes down to a matter of believing in personal responsibility or looking for a free handout. Sharks and minnows - one person in the water aka shark. Everyone else on the deck aka minnows. Have to swim from one side to the other without getting tagged and before the shark touches the wall you are on. I'm sure there are regional variations. If you get tagged you are now the shark.

mattson: Being a Southerner I am familiar with the process of frying. You do realize that in order to fry potatos, they have to be much, much greater a temperature (350 range) than what McDs serves coffee at? So, we can now look for the hot fry suit soon. Wonder why most people know not to put a hot fry in their mouth but it requires advanced education to realize you should not put cooler coffee between your legs while driving?