I am SOOOO Mad!

mattson: I take responsibility for my own actions. If I'm fool enough to dive before testing the depth, it's on me, not pool management. I know much better than to dive in any water without first testing the depth. Seems like common sense, kind of like not putting hot coffee between your legs while driving, huh? Lack of common sense is a good deal these days - you can get a big judgement. Enjoy your cold coffee, I'm taking mine hot, buyer beware! Who would you sue for an optical illusion - God?

BTW, in my pool thought experiment, you had tested the pool depth in some of the other lanes, but not all of them, before diving in. Just enough to let your common sense know how safe it was to dive into 4 ft of water. Originally posted by aquageek I take responsibility for my own actions. Let's push this one a little further. After your accident (which you didn't sue the pool management about), you become pool manager. You see person after person diving into that one special lane (without checking the depth). Despite the fact that you have had first hand knowledge of diving into that lane, despite the fact that you've seen dozens of people make exactly the same mistake, you say nothing to the swimmers. In fact, you point out to other people how deep the other lanes are (without mentioning the one exception). Are you responsible for your (in)action? Personal responsibility comes with information. Do you think that she had it in her lap, because in her past experience with other (normal temperature) hot coffee, her common sense said it doesn't cause any real damage if you spill it? If this woman knew that this particular coffee would cause hospitalization if you spilled it in your lap (which McDonald's knew happened to others before her), do you think she would still do it? (I don't know, maybe she would have. But if you check the trial details, the average consumer had no idea how much of a difference those extra 10-30 degrees made.)

Wow... it's been a long time. As I recall, the players (best with at least 10 or so) pick a shark or two who are in the middle of the pool, the rest of the players are minnows who start at one side and have to swim to the other side through the sharks without getting eaten (tagged.) If tagged, they become sharks. The surviving minnows must make another pass through the growing feeding frenzy until everyone is a shark. Then start over. At least I think that's how it went. Leonard, did you ever play Marco/Polo? ;)

When we played sharks and minnows, the minnows were safe as long as they were underwater but it was fair for the sharks to drag the minnows to the surface using any means possible. It was a very rough and very fun game.

I should also say that I really liked to play dodgeball as well.

Originally posted by KenChertoff You show up and tell the lifeguard you're an experienced masters swimmer -- as far as he knows you could be Mark Spitz or you could be Lipitor Dude. Not really. None of us would object if the pool were requiring some sort of official certification (and maybe even that we sign a USMS-style liability waiver) before using the blocks. It would be pretty easy to issue each certified swimmer some sort of tag to put on his/her swimsuit to let the lifeguard know at a glance that he/she is certified. But let's say Lifeguard Kid knows you and there's an empty lane, so he let's you dive. But that means he has to watch that no other swimmer sees an empty lane and, not realizing what you're doing, decides to take it -- right while you're going off the block. So Lifeguard Kid has to focus on your lane, to make sure you don't land on another swimmer. You seem to be forgetting that the starting blocks are in the deep end of the pool, but pool rules require that swimmers enter from the shallow end. Even if a swimmer is going off the blocks while another swimmer is entering the same lane, there's no danger because they are separated by the length of the pool. While all this is going on, he's distracted from watching the rest of the pool -- which is what we're paying him for. Well, at my pool last night, the pool was at one point divided into: 1/2 pool - open swim (with diving board open) 2 lanes - family lane swim (only open to people with family memberships 1 lane - teen lane swim (only open to teens) Why is it that a lifeguard (there was only one) can monitor each of these three areas of the pool to make sure nobody enters one of them who isn't supposed to, but can't monitor one lane where somebody is doing practice starts to make sure that anyone who enters the lane lets the other swimmer know he is there before he starts swimming laps?

Originally posted by Guvnah It seems to me that you have encountered the designated "traffic laws" at your YMCA regarding block starts. 1) Can't do it at all except under appropriate times/conditions. 2) Appropriate times/conditions are during formal team/coached workouts. All the rest of this thread contains little more than people's speculations about why those "traffic laws" exist. Did you read the original post? The real "traffic laws" at the pool are: 1) Can't do it at all except under appropriate times/conditions. 2) There are no appropriate times/conditions. And that is simply unacceptable for a skill competitive swimmers need to practice for meets!

Originally posted by gull80 Yes you may, but be careful--the attorneys are out there, circling. I think I saw their dorsal fins. Yaaa, I noticed. I think they're just wanting to test their 'am I good at arguing the case' skills. Well, I caan se their point, and I can see a lot of people could side with them... I just can't, because it goes against my fundamental belief of what belongs into 'personal responsibility'. Ya know, I don't blame the chocolate makers when I take the easy way out and give in to the urge of eating too much chocolate. No matter how many chocolate covered strawberries they put .... in ... front .... of ....me.

We can play "what-ifs" all day long. What's the old expression - If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, every day you'd win a big judgement for your own stupidity, or something like that. I don't know what this woman was thinking. I suspect at age 80, she might have had hot cup or two of coffee before in her life. She might have even been in a car before. And, I suspect, she might even know coffee is hot. By the way, the average consumer knows hot coffee burns. The below average consumer wins big lawsuits. Bottom line - some avoid taking responsiblity, some accept it. It's simple, chose one.

Originally posted by Bob McAdams Did you read the original post? The real "traffic laws" at the pool are: 1) Can't do it at all except under appropriate times/conditions. 2) There are no appropriate times/conditions. And that is simply unacceptable for a skill competitive swimmers need to practice for meets! From the original post: but none of the Y's where I swim will let me use the blocks - saying that a national Y policy prohibits anyone from using the blocks unless a team/club coach is on the deck. I think my wording is more accurate. But that's really beside the point. Even if the pool in question NEVER allows it, then that's the "traffic laws" that prevail there! (And then why bother even having blocks at that pool at all?)