improving butterfly

ok, another question about butterfly.As anybody knows when you see a good butterflier his butt will break the surface on the hands-entering-the-water-phase kick.So I had a friend of mine watch me swim fly and he told me that my butt does not break the surface.I tried hard but it still was not happening, although from his words it was just about to break the surface.What does that mean?Do I not have enough body movement?or...???Any ideas?

Exactly!

Alastair, Emmett Hines has written two fabulous articles on butterfly. Go to this web site http://www.h2oustonswims.org/ Click on the Articles tab. Read the articles "Slip Slid'n' Away" and "Vive Le Papillon" (in that order). Get yourself a pair of fins, and follow his advice. Some essential points to remember: - Swim fly with your body, not your arms. - I actually think of initiating my kick at my shoulders (versus the knees or the hips). - Keep your head in a neutral position (i.e. don't tilt your head up to breath), and breath as early in your arm recovery as possible, then get your head back down. If you have really good body udulation and head position, you can breath every stroke without messing up your stroke. - Try putting a little glide in your stroke after your recover your arms. Pause a split second before initiating the next arm pull. When you are ready to try a little whole body swimming, try this drill. Swim two strokes of breaststroke, then two strokes of fly, and keep alternating by 2's. I use this to make my breaststroke somewhat...less offensive than it would be otherwise. This drill helps but a body wave/udulation in your breaststroke, and a glide in your fly. If you want some more ideas, or inspiration, try this article about the crazed individual who swims a 5K open water swim butterfly the whole way www.thomasboettcher.org/.../default.htm Finally, Gareth are you out there? He is a regular contributor to this discussion board, a UK subject, and a coach who teaches a swimming style consistent with this method of fly. If he lives near you, he may be able to give you some pointers. Good luck, let us know how you do. Matt Here, Rich, I resurrected a thread just for you to learn fly. It seems that fins are advocated. Now, I'm off to read those articles.

Butterfly - I just started incorporating butterfly into my daily workouts. My knees give me no trouble doing the dolpin kick. My arms are no longer dragging through the water. I am feeling like a flyer again. Even though I am a slower flyer than I was it feels good to be back at it again. Never ever did butterfrog and never never will it is one useless stroke.

Here, Rich, I resurrected a thread just for you to learn fly. It seems that fins are advocated. Now, I'm off to read those articles. Butterfly - I just started incorporating butterfly into my daily workouts. My knees give me no trouble doing the dolpin kick. My arms are no longer dragging through the water. I am feeling like a flyer again. Even though I am a slower flyer than I was it feels good to be back at it again. My only fear on reading all this about the hips and thrusting is that it may aggravate my lumbar disc/pelvic problems...I'll skip serious work on it for now. It's odd the natural outward turnning of my feet and knees lend themselves to breaststroke, but also to cause low-back/pelvic issues. Add to that some weightlifing injuries, some whiplash, and wear and tear over the 20's...it's no wonder I have a dodgy back...I may try 25 fly tonight for a laugh. I'll let you know. the lifeguards are cool at our Y and you can ask them for stroke advice...which wil make it easier to laugh with them when I look like a dork.

Thanks for the great advice!! I myself just started seriously swimming a few yearsas I had a bad experience with it. When I was a kid I was diagnosed with learning disabilities and i think I never got the slight nuances of swimming at camp so i never progressed to the next level, so I turned 33 and said i wanted to prove it to myself and never looked back. I never had learned the butterfly until I joined a master program and I LOVE IT! IT'S MY FAVORITE STROKE. Just to do it and to watch it its breathtaking and amazing. I just love swimming Seamus

I find these helpful: Focus on pressing the chest down on entry while leaving the arms/hands nearer to the water surface. It gets the hips up without much kicking. With the hips up you can be "on top of your stroke" which is easier on the shoulders. Use the back muscles and not just your triceps to finish the pull. Those back muscles don't tire as fast as triceps do. Keep your chin in the water on breathing and don't jut it out (easier to breathe). If your body rhythm is good you may find you're rising enough to breathe every stroke without penalty, just like in breaststroke. I find swimming breaststroke with fins and a single dolphin kick a great way to coordinate the body rhythm with some carryover to swimming fly.

I find these helpful: Good stuff Nancy... Might sound basic but these are huge!

Alastair, When you are ready to try a little whole body swimming, try this drill. Swim two strokes of breaststroke, then two strokes of fly, and keep alternating by 2's. I use this to make my breaststroke somewhat...less offensive than it would be otherwise. This drill helps but a body wave/udulation in your breaststroke, and a glide in your fly. Good luck, let us know how you do. Matt I like this drill a lot, but in reverse order, two strokes of fly, two pulls of breaststroke, all with only one breath, come up to breathe as your arms get ready to pull the fly again. I do 25s of this drill and it seems to (a) get me completely out of breath, but (b) get me to move continuously with the dolphin kick/body undulation. I keep working at the fly. Also, I seem to have noticed that a wide hand entry and a somewhat wide start to my pull spares my shoulders. I can feel when I am pulling in the wrong place for my body, versus where it feels nice and solid. Still not a speedo, though. As I say, I keep working the fly. I like the challenge.

I like this drill a lot, but in reverse order, two strokes of fly, two pulls of breaststroke, all with only one breath, come up to breathe as your arms get ready to pull the fly again. I do 25s of this drill and it seems to (a) get me completely out of breath, but (b) get me to move continuously with the dolphin kick/body undulation. . . . Hmm, every coach I've had has wanted me to breathe every stroke in fly and BR, even in practice. But I'll try this drill. Ahelee (or anyone), can you speak to the glide in fly? Where/when does it occur? Thanks.