Call me an old fashioned cynic, but Gary Hall's oh so exclusive "Race Club" seems to generate more amusement than intimidation. To review the bidding for those with real lives, Mr. Hall announced a few months ago his intent to form his own club dedicated to elite swimming. It has a fabulous location and training facility in the Florida Keys. It will cover travel, training and living expenses. (I'm tempted to ask who is fronting the money, but I won't denigrade Mr. Hall's ability to raise funds.) If you want to join them, send in a resume; don't call us; we'll call you. Let us look over your accoplishments and decide whether you are worthy.
Hmm, great facilities, don't have to share pool time with the non-world class members (i.e. 99%) of a Swim Club, just about all expenses paid. Unless you have your own lucrative endorsement deal, what swimmer wouldn't want to join this team?
Well, the initial members of the "Swim Club" were announced last week. www.swiminfo.com/.../6097.asp Eight Olympians sounds real impressive. But then you look at the list a little more closely. Eleven swimmers, and although I have not googled everyone of them, all of the ones I have googled are in their late 20's or older. Or in other words, 3 of the 11 swimmers are chronologically at the back end of their careers, and they have not yet made their nation's Olympic Team. Closer scrutiny reveals 10 of the 11 are men. Just about all of them swim the 50 free or 50 fly, and few of them seriously compete in anything other that the 50 or 100 free or fly. In contrast to the lack of age, gender and event diversity, the team does have members of many nationalities and ethic backgrounds. However, the most telling stat of all is that roughly half of the members I checked are not currently ranked in the World Top 20 Rankings, LCM or SCM, in any event.
Overall, the "Swim Club" sort of reminds me of the kind of team a rookie fantasy league coach would assemble--there are a lot of names you would recognize, but their most productive years may be behind them. To be fair, all of these folks are amazing, world-class swimmers. Their careers to date have been awesome, and they remain extraordinary today by any standard, except arguably World Rankings. In contrast, I am an opinionated loud mouth. I would be delighted to see them find new speed and light up the scoreboards next year with medals and records, and make a complete monkey of me. As of right now, I think may the "Swim Club's" gloss may have exceeded its actual capabilities.
Matt
Former Member
Sorry guys, you don't get to Level 5 by just passing certification tests. You have to produce , contribute, and be published. Passing tests only gets you to level 1.
Not arrogant, do you really want a coach that says, well maybe we can get you faster? Or one who knows and will do what is best for you to get you faster. Confident, yes.
Any good coach would love to get talent like that. Two years ago I had 5 swimmers from 4 different high schools final in the high school championships. Some came 60 miles to swim with me. This last year I again got lucky, two 12 year old boys, one doing 2:19 for 200 yard breaststroke and the other doing 1:05. Still to get better at coaching, try the Special Olympics.
I pay attention to the smallest details, at least my swimmers will always have great starts and turns and finishes. I prepare myself for coaching very hard and long. Preparation and hard work grows confidence and better skills. I say I am lucky, but there are a lot of hours behind that luck. I wish I had more time for my own swimming, would love to be in great shape again. Yet I do not give any drills to my swimmer that I can't do myself. I often create new drills while swimming and then try them out on my swimmers. Some work, some don't. Some get modified by the swimmers input to become very good drills.
Yet I do not give any drills to my swimmer that I can't do myself. I often create new drills while swimming and then try them out on my swimmers. Some work, some don't. Some get modified by the swimmers input to become very good drills.
I do this and it works well. I also get in the pool and demonstrate on occasion. The biggest change in the attitude of my older swimmers came when i videotaped them and showed them the results..
Now they know what i see in the way they swim and they are working hard to improve it.
On the coaching thing, we had a big discussion about this at a conference. Do you have to have coached a world champion to be a "Great coach".
I don't think so. You can be an OK coach who gets lucky and has an exceptionaly talented athelete on your team. On the other hand a "Great coach" may be working with material that just is not going to get there, but he or she can maximise that potential to the greatest degree possible.
If like me, you live in a rural area, you will never be the principal coach of a world champion as you do not live in the city at the big club. In a small club like mine you teach the skills as well as you can, so they can excel at a bigger club when they move on.
That is OK with me, my family life is more important to me than coaching.
Wayne, we had Bill Pilczuk (now UK sprint coach) give a talk on swimming at the BSCTA conference. He is a big fan of the track start, saying that it consistently gains 0.5 sec by the 15m mark. What is your opinion on this.
BTW good to see you back on the forum. We need more level 5 coaches talking here. In fact in general we do not get enough info from the top coaches. They seem to be reluctant to share info with us "ordinary folks" !
Hi Wayne. I knew you'd cause at least one coronary with the comment about Hall's starts and finishes, but to cause 3-4 and all this outcry??!! Wow. Since when can a swimmer be fast, but not faster? Has anyone seen a perfect race lately or are we continuing to get faster? Guess you are not allowed to experiment in this sport as a coach or swimmer, nor express opinions, or offer your qualifications and accomplishments. Stick to your guns; I know what you're doing.
No one has ever IMPLIED Gary had the "perfect" swim. I just don't understand how anyone can call him lucky. That is not only a complete put down but also goes right in the face of those (the rest of the world besides Anthony Ervin) he beat. I agree no one has or ever will have the "perfect" swim. Still don't know how figure skaters, gymnasts, divers, etc. can EVER get a perfect score. It's the fact that people have personal issues with Gary Hall, Jr. that they make excuses for his results. The results speak for themselves so get over it.
Bert, always good to stir the pot. I deal in hard facts and ideas. There is always the goal of that "PERFECT" race. That would begin with the start and end with the finish. Doesn't matter how fast the swimmer. I believe in evidence-based coaching, vs. belief-based coaching.
Fact, the 1996 races could have finished differently.
The 2000 race did finish differently. There is a lot of evidence that Klim and Popov lost the races through bad coaching of dolphin kicking at the finish. But that is another story.
Now to the Track start. Bert has a great track start, he is amazing how fast he gets into the water in all his strokes. Sometimes he comes up with 50 breasts that are mind blowing, beating his breaststroker brothers.
Now in the ideal world, I do not like the track start. Bill Pilczuk may be talking about novice swimmers who can gain time by not causing resistance when diving into the water. The rest of the world prefers the grab start because it is faster in their opinions.
I believe the physics are strongly behind the two footed grab start. Check out Power Starts at http://www.quickgetaway.com/
Here is a treat for all of you. Go to www.swim.ee/.../index.html
Go to the mens 50 free
www.swim.ee/.../mfre50.html
Notice the time to 15 meters: Popov and Foster tied and Gary just slightly behind. Actually a great start for Gary. Poor Ervin and his track star was .16 seconds behind.
Go to www.swim.ee/.../dublin_index.html
and look at the videos. Notice the european sprinters all have their feet (Both) at the front of the block. If I remember correctly the 50 free final in the 2000 Olympics, 5 of the 8 used the grab start, the americans the track start.
You guys can have hours of fun at that web site. I spend a lot of time in the breaststroke sections. For mens 50 meters short course, there can be as much as 0.7 seconds difference to the 50 meter mark 6.5 vs. 7.2, and this is in the finals. Our Ed Moses used to have the best time to 15 meters, and the best time in and out of the turns. Then Japan's Kosuke Kitajima broke both world records, and he was faster to 15 meters and faster into and out of the turns. I would love to see his splits and times from this last World Cup in Berlin. He did a 26.68 for the 50, a 58.23 for his 100, and 2:02.92 for his 200. I bet he found his magic again on the start and turns.
Gareth,
The U.K. is so lucky to have Bill Sweetenham as head coach. They are a force in swimming again. I believe Gibson has a great chance for Gold in the breaststrokes, but all the UK swimmers will come to the Olympics with medal chances. Bill Sweetenham has already made them winners, they will be ready.
I went to both his lectures at the ASCA World clinic, also got to meet Forbes and Ursula Carlisle.
There is no way on the world level that the track start is consistently better by 0.5 sec at the 15m mark. Reviewing the last three Olympics by video, lane assignment and time to 15 meters, I would say consistantly behind by 0.1 to 0.2 seconds. Only the americans love the track start, the rest of the world prefers the grab start.
I've read the requirements and I stand by my thought that you can get pretty far without doing much coaching. Others can decide for themselves. I never thought being published made a better college professor. It just made them published. Same for coaches. Maybe someone should start a thread on what makes a good coach.
www.macacoach.org/ascamasterscertification.pdf
Originally posted by breastroker
Sorry guys, you don't get to Level 5 by just passing certification tests. You have to produce , contribute, and be published. Passing tests only gets you to level 1.
How about giving Gary Hall the same credit you give yourself for creating luck.
Originally posted by breastroker
I say I am lucky, but there are a lot of hours behind that luck.
Well I guess we'll just have to disagree. You think Emmet is a more qualified coach than a past Olympic Champion, and I think that you are using illegal narcotics.
Emmet's credentials, wrote a book, and he is an all around great guy.
John Olson's credentials: Former Olympic Champion, World Record Holder, World Champion, Multiple NCAA champion, Captain of the United States Olympic Team, and American Record Holder. Also regarded as an all around great guy.
If you have such a problem with Gary's techniques, why don't you talk to Mike Bottom as he coached him in 2000.
It's amazing with such bad technique to have won 4 gold, 2 silver, and 1 bronze medal in his career. He has one heck of a "lucky" string.
In my book he must be the greatest swimmer ever, since his technique is so flawed and have the success he has had must say something.
Oh yeah, how could I forget Type 1 diabetic, he is real lucky!!
lefty,
I really do not want to down play John Olson's credentials. I have met Jon at several World clinics and he is a wonderful human being. Just because you can do something does not mean you can teach it. This is not pointed at Jon either. Of all the sprinters of the last 30 years, Jonty Skinner is by far the most successful as a coach.
As an ASCA Level 5 coach like Emmett, I see the huge amount of planning, physiology, and subtle nuances that are required of the great coaches. Writing things out like Emmett shows tremoundous knowledge to comprehend the whole picture, and Emmett is extraordinairy. When he gives a lecture at the ASCA World Clinic, all the great coaches listen:p
There are two qualities I have seen amoung young great coaches.
First they recognise they do not know it all, and are sponges to new knowledge.
Second, they were good swimmers, but usually not the teams superstars. I often hear from them that their coaches would have never suspected them to go on to coaching. Their coaches often had to explain things to them over and over again. Much can be infered from this:D
I also see that masters coaches are the equal of the age group and Olympic coaches. Heck, give me 5 great swimmers and I know I could make them faster still. It amazes me that even at the Olympic level swimmers still have minor and major stroke flaws. A couple of tenths of a second can mean the difference between first and fifth. No one remembers the loosers.
