Hi all,
It's so funny--sometimes I see people at the pool who really go at it with the kickboard...and then other people wouldn't touch one if their life depended upon it.
I'll admit, I don't use one--mainly becuase I'm impatient, feel like I'm not going anywhere, and am a purist to a fault sometimes.
But, if you think that it's worthwhile, I would incoporate it, all for the sake of improvement.
The great questions are:
Will training with a kickboard make me a better, faster, super awesome swimmer?
And, if you train with one--why? Or, why not?
Thanks everybody (you know you're my outlet!)
JoAnne -aka, Jerrycat ;)
Former Member
I kick the fastest in breaststoke. I think as a kid I could kick it faster than flutter kick and fly. Ion, is a great flutter kicker. For for Jonty Skinner, he was wrong as well as most of the sportspeople of South Africa. Countries in Africa like Ethopia, Sudan ,Rwanda, Nigeria, that had bloody civil wars that killed and exiled thousands of people were allowed in the olympic games while South Africa that practice a dated form of racism wasn't.
I didn't know this:
Originally posted by Gareth Eckley
ION are you familiar with the concept of muscle imbalance ? This is where most swimmers have much stronger quadriceps than hamstrings and that strengthening the hamstrings to get a closer balance in the leg muscles can lead to a better kick.
This link explains it better than I can:
www.zoomers.net/new-muscleimbalances.htm
The second link is around ankle flexibility:
www.zoomers.net/new-thekick.htm
Sorry if this is info that you already know.
I understand that quite a few succesful coaches are working on even propulsion on the downbeat and upbeat ( squeezing water between the feet ) and that it does seem to make a difference.
I do a lot of flutter kick on my back and sides, with and without fins and I feel that it does more for my kick than kicking on a board ever did. I also stretch my ankles regularly and they are at my limit.
Every little bit helps !
My information is mostly empirical, and some bits gathered from books and the news.
So, in the flutter kick, the quadriceps making the downbeat are more developed than the hamstrings making the upbeat, and there is an imbalance in strength between the quadriceps and the hamstrings which when corrected towards some parity improves the entire flutter kick.
This imbalance between quadriceps and hamstrings explains why when I kick on my back mostly with my hamstrings I am lame, and when I kick flutter with mostly my quadriceps I am strong:
a month ago, in a 50 meter pool workout, I was doing 8x50 meter flutter kick with a kickboard leaving every 55 seconds, while I was making them in about 47 seconds each.
From your post and the first link, it looks like I have work in front of me, in the department of kicking on my back, so that I develop further my hamstrings for future flutter kick.
Sometimes when I kick strong, I build pain in the quadriceps, hamstrings and calf muscles, which is a sign that I am working on these, but from the first link it seems that I need to focus more work on the hamstrings.
As for ankle flexibility, I guess that compared to the pictures shown in the second link, I am at about 70 degrees of flexibility.
It's interesting to discover and learn more, from posts like this...
Originally posted by lefty
Ion,
I am impressed that you can do 50M kick sets on 55. A few years back I could do that, but I was going a 23 in the 50 M free then. You weren't kidding when you said that you have a strong kick.
...
The coach who trained Steve Crocker (U.S.) in the early 90s, says that I am fearsome in kicking and that I should be a fearsome sprinter.
Like being able to do 24 seconds for the 50 meter free Long Course.
The challenge that I battle is that I have a slow upper body, strong as in having benchpressed 320 pounds for a 158 body weigh in 1998 and having benchpressed 290 pounds for a 162 body weigh in 2002, but slow.
It might be due to the fact that when pulling I am not getting a big enough distance per stroke, and I speculate that it is because of not having enough blood vessels going from the heart to the triceps due to my late start in swimming when the body was already grown (i.e.: I joined my first ever swimming club at age 28).
How is it that I have blood vessels going from the heart into the quadriceps, given the same factor of starting late in swimming, I don't know.
In kicking I have a gift -which it seems here that I can still further (with stronger hamstrings)-, and if this gift was matched with a faster upper body, then that would put me into a superior level of swimming.
Originally posted by lefty
...
Kicking with a board is great exercise and it is a good for swimmers to do. However, I would compare it to running. A great thing to do, but won't necessarily help your technique.
One last thing, who was the South African swimmer who was actually the best sprinter in the world in the late 80's. I think he went a 22.0 in the 50 but his WR wasn't recognized.
Kicking with a board for long distances would help develop the quadriceps and the ankle flexibility.
Not the technique, but the quadriceps muscles only.
I believe the South African sprinter strong in the late 80s and early 90s, was Peter Williams.
He swam 22.83 in the 50 meter free Long Course in 1990, for #12 in the world that year, but 1990 was a worldwide vintage year for sprinting (with Tom Jager's 21.81 and Matt Biondi's 21.85) while Williams was peaking out by then.
Originally posted by cinc310
...
Ion would do real good in flutter kick.
I would do well indeed:
not the best, but pretty high anyway.
I wonder who lefty is, since stating that a few years ago he was swimming 50 meter free in 23 seconds.
lefty must be a recognizable name in swimming.
Recognizable? Hardly! I went a 23.96 and didn't even have a senior cut. Since I had my identity stolen and credit ruined I am pretty paranoid about posting personal information on the internet, however if you send me a private message I'll give you my 411
And yes it was Peter Williams that I was thinking of, though I am not surprised that there were other unrecognized records.
If you are in your 50's Lefty and did 23.96 back in the 1960's that was a really good time for then in meters. In yards it wasn't as good but still is similar to a boy in high school swimming a 21.96 today in yards. I reread your post and you said it was meters and I now don't think your in your 50's,correct.
Originally posted by lefty
...I went a 23.96 and...
...
Still, had I been able to do 23.96 in 50 free Long Course, then I would make sure that at least three sports bars in San Diego know me...
Kickboards also cause me shoulder pain. Does anyone else use a pull buoy for kicking? I usually kick without a kickboard but for breaststroke I'll sometimes use a pull buoy. It looks odd but it provides enough floation. The buoy rides a few inches underneath the surface which seems to cause less stress on the shoulders.
