American swimmers taking steriods

Name the last athlete who got busted for steroids that admitted he was busted. Who was it? Steroids in an approved supplement, give me a break.

I'd say there is a huge difference between a state-sponsored all-inclusive program, and the individual who decides to cheat. Besides, that same SwimInfo article mentions that the swimmer will appeal, so you may want to wait to find out what happens. "(His coach) said he (Vencill) believes the steroid may have been present in a legal supplement he took."

Lifetime ban for taking a drug on the prohibited list? Sound extreme especially when you consider that a number of those drugs are not performance enhancing. We've seen some swimmers who have been disqualified/suspended because of substances found in cold/asthma medication. I do believe they should be suspeneded but not permanently banned from swimming. Also others have tested positive for illegal drugs that are not performance enhancing (e.g. marijuana). They should also be suspended but not banned. To support Tom's position re lifetime ban substances such as steroids have a long-term "benefical" (and negative) impact that persists for years. To date. drug violations in the US have been radically different than those of East Germany and China. Since our sport is not organized by the state, we won't see such violations. The danger to our sport would be, hypothetically, if a major swim club had multiple swimmers testing positive. Fortunately, that has not happened in the U.S. I still think the major problem with performance enhancing drug use is our inability to systematically discover all cheaters through testing. I don't think longer term bans will root out more cheaters.

I have a vehement and deep disgust for drug cheaters. I believe when caught, a life time ban from competition is in order. I also believe that every person has the right to due process. Innocent until proven guilty! Once proven guilty, the end! Individual athletes using illegal drugs to improve their times and strength are fundamentally different then past state run programs such as East Germany and China. I believe any nation caught sponsoring state run drug programs should be lifetime banned from competition. Although I do not have hard evidence to prove this thought process, I believe the vast majority of United States athletes do not use performance enhancing drugs to improve their strength and times. The climate for this type behavior in the United States is not conducive to illegal drug use in sports. Does it exist? Of course it exists, but the risk and shame of being caught does not outweigh the possible gains. Thus, the possibility of becoming a pariah when caught, serves as a serious deterrent for illegal drug use in our country.

I think we are all much smarter today than a decade ago about performance enhancing drugs. With the media and the talk around the pool you would have to be locked in a closet to not know something about illegal drug use. My point is that we are not educating our athletes about the use of these drugs. I'm sure there a few clubs that actually take the time to provide education to their athletes, but a great majority do not - most coaches need to be educated. If we continue to accept that word of mouth and media information will help prevent use of these drugs... we are in a world of hurt...

You are way off course...... HGH and designer drugs are the rage not Andro and other streroid based enhancements ........ Italians, Aussies, Dutch....... it's out there and untested in its natural form. Size 17 feet......... don't be foolish.

Dave Denniston's roommate, Kicker Vencill, was suspended for four years from swimming upon testing positive for a banned substance. Kicker denies this and will be appealing. Dave gives a much more detailed explanation of the circumstances than does the governing body (and you can see some video of Kicker) at: www.goswim.tv/kicker.html

I received the following in an e-mail today forwarded by a NOVA swimmer (not the one whose name is at the end of the e-mail). I thought those of you disussing this case might find the comments on the testing procedure for the "B" sample to be of interest. I know one of our Masters swimmers is not a fan of the doctor mentioned below. I have no direct knowledge of the truth or untruth of anything said in the e-mail. <><><><><><><><><><><><> Kicker's True Story Many of you may have heard about Kicker Vencill testing positive for a banned substance. Since it has been released, I have received several questions about what's going on. I have been Kicker's roommate for over a year, and I was there from the test (not in the actual bathroom, but there) until his birthday last Monday when USADA told him he was banned for four years. Why I'm writing this: I know with one hundred percent confidence that Kicker is innocent of knowingly taking a banned substance to enhance his performance. Several of the things that Kicker went through in the last six months have caused me reason for concern, and in the best interest of our sport, and his integrity, I am shedding light on those issues. I am not writing this to challenge USADA or any of the doping officials. The FedEx: I was sitting on the couch, when Kicker came through the door panicked and shaking. I had never seen him like this before, and I knew something was up. He immediately blurted out, "They said I tested positive for some sh*t I've never heard of!" I read the papers in the fed ex while he frantically tried to call people to find out what was going on. Stacy Michael was the first person he called. Upon hearing that he had tested positive she told him that she was not allowed to talk to him. Almost everyone turned their back on Kicker at that moment, and presumed that he was guilty without even talking to him. Kicker's only support, besides his coach and family, was a family friend who was a lawyer willing to take on his case. The Test Results: According to the test results of Kicker's "A" sample, they found approximately 4 Nanograms (that's 2 billionths of a gram over the cut-off) of 19-Norandrosterone in his urine. There are documented cases in which prior to January of 2003 results between 2 and 5 nanograms were considered a grey area, and the cases were dropped. According to other cases of 19-Norandrosterone, athletes who have knowingly and admittedly taken the substance tested well over 20 Nanograms, and sometimes in the hundreds of thousands. The "B" sample: According to USADA's rules, athletes have the right to be present for the testing of the "B" sample at their own expense. A week before the testing of the "B" sample, Kicker set up an appointment with USADA at the UCLA testing lab to be present at 9:00 AM on February 18th because that is when they were going to test his second sample. Upon arrival to the lab, with Coach Salo, they found out that Kicker's sample was still frozen and they wouldn't be testing it until much later that afternoon. They had the option to stay at UCLA for seven hours and wait around if they wanted to observe the testing. They declined that option, as practice was at 4pm that day. So much for being present for the testing of the "B" sample. How they test: Before I get too far into this, realize I'm putting this into layman's terms, so people like you and I can understand it. I do understand essentially what's going on, and I do know that there are some major holes. Dr. Catlin testified at Kicker's Arbitration that he uses his own method of testing which he claims is better than the method that the IOC requires for prosecution of an athlete. So basically Dr. Catlin doesn't follow IOC protocol because he thinks his method is better. In testing there is a series of solutions that get "baked" in a MS (mass spectrometer machine. Some of the solutions are positive, and some are negative. Before an athlete's urine is run through a bake and then tested a "negative" solution is supposed to be baked first. Dr. Catlin insists that the baking process removes any "positive" remains and so he doesn't run the negative solution before the Urine Sample of the athlete. So, there is small chance (perhaps 2 billionths of a gram small?) that positive remains could be left in the MS machine for an Athlete's sample to mix with. Whether this is the case or not, realize that the urine samples that we provide as athletes are not being tested according to IOC protocol at the UCLA laboratory and Dr. Catlin. What Kicker Did: Kicker essentially did nothing more than any other elite athlete in our sport. Jason Lezak, Scott Tucker, and Ed "Met-Rx" Moses all openly and admittedly take supplements on a regular basis. Kicker was taking the exact same thing as our teammates Scott and Jason when he tested positive. Nearly every athlete on the USA National team takes some sort of supplement. Kicker was no different. Even "Swimming World" and several Coaching publications have advertisements for supplements. Kicker did absolutely nothing wrong, and he definitely didn't knowingly take anything banned to enhance his performance. As a matter of fact, USADA didn't even enforce the six-month retroactive ban, because the levels of 19-Norandrosterone were so small that it couldn't of enhanced his performance. My Opinion on this Case: USADA and all the anti-doping associations are implemented to create a level playing field for us as athletes. With Kicker's case, I feel like they essentially took a pebble off of a mountain. I also feel like getting banned for four years is absolutely ridiculous. Kicker got the death penalty for running over a cat. (Or, as Coach Salo said, he didn't even kill the cat, he just ran over its tail.) In the mean time, several athletes all over the world have hired doctors to use banned substances that get around these tests. I fell like the people who have enforced this ruling must have no idea what it's like to train for at least four hours a day, hold a job, and dedicate yourself to a dream. I don't think they know that, because if they did they wouldn't so haphazardly rip that dream away from someone who was working so hard to fulfill it. I don't feel like these organizations are doing their job. In our sport alone within the last year, there have been three "cases" documented by USADA. One girl took Sudafed, another missed a test because she was retired, and then there's Kicker's, which was so low that they admitted it didn't even enhance his performance. What's being done about the people who are actually cheating? Nothing. Regardless of those facts, here's my opinion on Kicker: >From the moment he heard the news of the positive test, Kicker never gave up hope in believing he would get out of this. He knew it was so ridiculous that they surely would see there was a mistake. But it still weighed heavy on his mind every day. He was facing losing his dream and his passion for six months. There were several times I could see him fighting back tears with all that he could muster. Regardless of these things, he came to every workout and trained like the elite athlete he is. He went to meets and swam every swim as if it were his last. He never, not even once, thought of just giving up and quitting. In the last six months he has become a role model to me. His perseverance and heart are as strong as any man I've ever seen, and that is something to be admired by anyone. Understandably, his family supported him with love, kindness and concern every step of the way. Everyone that knows Kicker, knows the truth. he's innocent. But he's also a fighter, a hard worker, a strong Christian, a friend, and a role model. David Denniston USA National Team Kicker's Roommate

Tom, I'm 100% with you on this, the list of banned substances is clear and ANY violation should have extremally harsh penalties. Yes there should be rigourous testing and verification as well but as long as we're willing to look at cheating as having a "grey" area where some violations have less penalties than others people will continue to push the envelope. Part of the problem we have is the influence of pro sports lack of commitment to a strong policy (how many chanes and what a great message they sent with Strawberry), baseball being the absolute worst (hey Andro's cool, even though every other sport in the world bans it!). If you look deeped into this, mainly with kids programs I think most people would be stunned, you've got 10 year olds using creatine and steroid use in high school football is epidemic. But the abuse goes the other way as well, don't think for a second that Masters swimming is clean! As long as we are willing to say lets be "tolerant" and give people 2, 3.......chances we will continue to have abuse. Follow the rules or your gone!

If my memory serves me correct (since I am lazy to double-check what I post now): 1.) Kicker Vencill used to train up until last year with Erik Vendt in distance freestyle under Mark Schubert, at U.S.C.; 2.) the same 19-Norandro...something -found in Vencill- was what Claudia Poll (Costa Rica) -a 6'3" pretty blond woman, who won individual Olympic medals in 1996 and 2000- tested for one and a half years ago, and was suspended for four years; like Vencill it is now; she claimed that she indavertently got it from a legal supplement and that the testing was sub-par (just like it is done on Vencill's behalf today in www.swiminfo.com), she appealed the suspension to the Arbitration Court in Lausanne, Switzerland, and she lost the appeal; so, she was banned for four years, starting one and a half years ago; like Vencill is going to be from now on, I guess; 3.) I suspect that the rumors about programs in coutries working on illegal H.g.h., E.P.O. and designer drugs, or on the milder legal supplements found in the U.S. and Canada, do explain the astonishing results from the 2000 Sydney Olympics by the Dutch, Italians, U.S. and just about anyone making the Olympic semi-finals and finals; I don't believe that Inge de Bruijn's (Ned.) past rankings and training could have given her a chance at overtaking Jenny Thompson (U.S.) -who was already on legal supplements in 1999 and 2000-; Pieter van den Hoogenband (Ned.), Johan Kenkhuis (Ned.), and many more are unbelievable; the use of H.g.h. by medallist Massi Rossolini (Ita.) has been documented in the year 2000, but the Olympics didn't have then the legal procedure set in place to disqualify someone already documented as taking H.g.h., so Rossolini's medals stand; there is today in the Olympics such a legal procedure for disqualifying people caught on H.g.h.; Ian Thorpe's (Aus.) size 17 feet, might suspiciously look like past use of H.g.h.; 4.) speaking about Angel Meyers' (U.S.) now Angel Martino's ban for four years in 1988 for steroids, in the book 'Choose to Win', Susie O'Neill (Aus.) states that in her opinion the benefits from steroids oulast the four years of punishment; I don't know; 5.) regarding the morality of the reality appearing in 1.), 2.), 3.) and 4.), I think that it is through nutrition that this generation is taller and more athletic than past generations (than Spitz' generation for example), I think that this trend will continue to produce even faster performances, and that following what is legal, is a good arbitrary dividing zone between moral and immoral; what is legal, is defined as what is not on the Olympic list of performance enhancers (like the steroids that are being given to the racing horses) and also what is not a new designer drug -unheard off yet-; 6.) as for punishment for illegal enhancers, there is an Olympic distinction indeed between a steroid (punished by 4 years for Vencill and Poll), and a medication for cold; legal supplements are not punishable in the Olympics; 7.) regarding the question in the opening post, whether one thinks that illegal enhancers like steroids are more spread in the U.S. -including in Masters swimming-, than what has been documented: I don't know; I take the 'Platinum Performance' legal diet supplement bars that was advertized two years ago in many issues of the 'Swim' magazine (similar in purpose to the diet bars named 'Zone' by Barry Sears, or to 'Power' bars), and in competition I take 'GU' for an energy boost -which Paul introduced me to once-.