I just competed (and I use the term loosely) in the 2003 National Senior Games and found it very disappointing to see that Master swimmers have pretty much taken over the awards platform. This event used to be mainly for recreational athletes who either could not or did not want to compete at a higher level. This was our opportunity to have a moment in the spotlight by competing against athletes who were “equal” to our level of skill. Our moment to believe we were the best in our group and to share our victories with our friends.
By coming to this event, you (the Master swimmers) have assured that no one who is a recreational athlete will ever get a medal and you have pushed the minimum standard time so low that many athletes no longer qualify to even come to the National event. In talking with over 85 athletes of various ages, it was generally agreed that within the next few years, this will be “just another Master’s venue”. You already have four National Events EACH YEAR, the SC Yards, SC Meters, LC Meters, and the YMCA Nationals. Why can’t you leave ONE event that takes places every OTHER year for the swimmers who will never be at any of your meets? Out of the 85 swimmers I spoke with, an overwhelming percent said they would probably not go to the event in Pittsburgh, PA since there would probably be more Masters there and no place for them.
I realize that this event is open to all seniors, but I ask you, how would you feel to have your only chance to win a medal taken away by someone who probably has a box full of them? If you look at the times, you will see that that the top three places in nearly all events went to Masters who all hold top 10 times in USMS. So the athletes, who are not Masters, had to settle for ribbons. There were so many disappointed families, friends, and swimmers who had hoped to win a medal and stand on the awards platform and share their shining moment with their families. Instead it was Masters and the majority of them didn’t even bring families. It was “just another meet” for them.
I’m sure I’m going to be made the “bad guy” by writing this, but my mother is 83 years old and watched her medal go to a Master swimmer and my heart broke for her. She may not be here for any future games and she really worked hard to do well, then you guys showed up. Please, leave the recreational National Event for us and be happy with your four events each year.
Former Member
There is an attempt to give varying skill levels the opportunity to compete with others of similar abilities.
Yes, and that is exactly Swim2sea's point!
The lady was complaining that the National Senior Games is open to faster swimmers than she is used to. I maintain that the way to accomplish that would be to form more than one Games and I guess that would involve time standards. OK by me.....
While I can not speak for S2S, I don't think she was unhappy that it was openned to swimmers faster than she; she was unhappy that there is no mechanism for competition between swimmers of SIMILAR ability levels--everyone competes against everyone else.
She was quite clear in asking all "Masters" to stay away. I agree that her motive seems to be to enhance her (and others) chances. Where we all part company has to do with how that goal is to be accomplished.
Originally posted by DocG
The point is that if they want to bill themselves as the official "Senior Olympics," with IOC permission, they certainly want the top swimmers there. The only reason there aren't more top level swimmers is because of the ridiculous qualifying requirements to attend (you have to choose your specific events 6-10 months in advance at your State Games).
I agree that they do bill themselves as the "Senior Olympics" which means they should want the top swimmers there. Also, in their publicity they say that the best senior athletes compete in these games. At the national level, you have to expect that the competition will be tough!
I agree about the qualifying rigamarole (which makes it very difficult for somebody who works) plus they wanted entries submitted by the end of January (later amended to the end of February).
Actually for me, I find swimming against a better swimmer inspiring. When I first got started I was inspired by people who could swim several events and turn in good times. I was inspired to train more when I saw what others my age were capable of doing. I couldn't imagine doing a 50 fly in a long course pool, but now I do 200 fly long course. Also, I set a personal best in the fly at Y Nationals (I'm 66), exceeding my seed time by 18 seconds! I was ecstatic even though my main competitor also exceeded her seed time and beat me. Getting to this point was because of being inspired by my fellow swimmers that I (and others my age) are capble of being athletes.
This has been an interesting thread. For such a controversial topic it is refreshing to see this topic didn't disintegrate into a typically rude and offensive email exchange. Clearly, there are some passionate view points, and some cleverly defended. The Master's people truely are a unique and respectable group.
This issue reminds me of some of the trends happening in the school systems these days. Students are increasingly being shielded from the spector of winning and loosing because we don't want the kids self esteem to be negatively affected. Some schools are doing away with the classic grading structure...participation in "some" athletic competition is watered down because "everyone wins". I can't help but feel this ultimately hurts motivation and drive.
Anyway...I think this has been one of the most interesting threads in a long time. I'm generally just a lurker here and enjoy this board greatly.
I deperately want to let go of this whole thread and get on to more meaningful topics........but I seem to get stuck here since it hasn't been defined or addressed to my satisfaction.
So.....I'll take another whack at it !
When our six children were small, we tried to instill value systems in them that would help them through life. One of those "rules of the road" was the idea that one advances through their own efforts, not those of others. Our philosophy boiled down to "Putting someone else down does NOT move you up !"
Apparently some people never learned that lesson. Too bad.
Another example for you to consider is this: When I first started coaching, I took on a team that was just about the worst in our town. The doormat team. I learned that the team only entered "B/C" meets, so that the little precious ones would ALWAYS meet with success and the parents would always be happy because the children were. What a fire-storm I created when I insisted that we enter "A" meets so as to test ourselves more sternly. Of course, the team rose to the challenge and improved greatly..to my elation and the kid's satisfaction. The original parents group went to Whocaresville. The point here is obvious.....Swim uphill to get stronger (sorry T/I; it's just a metaphor !
I am absolutely burfuffelled by the attitudes of some people.
What's happening to us when we expect excellence to simply step aside and let childish "wants" prevail ???
Now I'm finished............
Bert (first is first and second is last) Petersen
Like some others, I think I understand the underlying frustration sea2sea expressed - maybe it helps to be old enough to be eligible for the sr games. I don't agree with her proposed solution but I too have struggled a bit with the fact that because I started this late in life and had no early training and no competitive experience I will likely never be a record holder even at my local level. There are several women in my age group who are significantly faster. So as long as they compete I won't be first or second and maybe not even third. Having a competitive streak, that's a bit hard for me to swallow. However, it isn't their fault I'm slower and they have as much right to compete as I do.
So I just keep at it, getting healthier, making new friends, and developing skills that I know only a small percent of the total population has. (Sometimes when I'm really irritated with someone at work, I visualize them trying to do the fly and utterly failing, while I breeze by.) Guess that has to make up for my lack of gold medals.
I just today participated in my second Senior Games, the first five years ago when I turned 50. That one was the Huntsmans Games in Utah, I went for the free medical care and to visit relatives. At the Utah meet there were Masters swimmers and those who wore baggy trunks down to the knees, weighing 18 pounds when wet. We all got along and rapidy started to help the non masters with coaching tips etc. These people need coaching and appreciate all the help they can get.
Todays meet "Pasadena Senior Olympics" was small, probably everyone that swam got a medal. It is a qualifier for the 2004 California Senior Games Championships, heck I can't think that far ahead.
I think I should be in my own category like Ion, as competitors who have not even done one lap in 6 weeks category!!!
So I managed to get 3 silver medals, my 100 and 200 reflected not swimming for 6 weeks. Cold pool and my asthma made for major lactic acid. Even my eyebroys hurt.
But the first event for me was the 50 meters ***, I did not look even once (at Allen Murrey) and did a good time for me, 37.74. So now all I have to do is workout every day until Nationals! I was inspired by being Beat by swimmers in far better shape.
If I went to the national senior games like this, I would get beat like Swim2sea's mom. So what. There is nowhere in the USA that she cannot get coaching, rent a video from USMS or go to swim clinics. Oh my, I just mentioned things only registered Masters have going for them!
My suggestion to Swim2sea's mom is join us. We embrace everyone. There is no one I have ever seen at a swim meet that did not want to improve, it is not related to age. Even at todays meet I had several people asking about swim techniques and rules. They were all 60 plus plus.
I am proud of the way Masters swimmers act at meets like this.
Wayne McCauley
