I just competed (and I use the term loosely) in the 2003 National Senior Games and found it very disappointing to see that Master swimmers have pretty much taken over the awards platform. This event used to be mainly for recreational athletes who either could not or did not want to compete at a higher level. This was our opportunity to have a moment in the spotlight by competing against athletes who were “equal” to our level of skill. Our moment to believe we were the best in our group and to share our victories with our friends.
By coming to this event, you (the Master swimmers) have assured that no one who is a recreational athlete will ever get a medal and you have pushed the minimum standard time so low that many athletes no longer qualify to even come to the National event. In talking with over 85 athletes of various ages, it was generally agreed that within the next few years, this will be “just another Master’s venue”. You already have four National Events EACH YEAR, the SC Yards, SC Meters, LC Meters, and the YMCA Nationals. Why can’t you leave ONE event that takes places every OTHER year for the swimmers who will never be at any of your meets? Out of the 85 swimmers I spoke with, an overwhelming percent said they would probably not go to the event in Pittsburgh, PA since there would probably be more Masters there and no place for them.
I realize that this event is open to all seniors, but I ask you, how would you feel to have your only chance to win a medal taken away by someone who probably has a box full of them? If you look at the times, you will see that that the top three places in nearly all events went to Masters who all hold top 10 times in USMS. So the athletes, who are not Masters, had to settle for ribbons. There were so many disappointed families, friends, and swimmers who had hoped to win a medal and stand on the awards platform and share their shining moment with their families. Instead it was Masters and the majority of them didn’t even bring families. It was “just another meet” for them.
I’m sure I’m going to be made the “bad guy” by writing this, but my mother is 83 years old and watched her medal go to a Master swimmer and my heart broke for her. She may not be here for any future games and she really worked hard to do well, then you guys showed up. Please, leave the recreational National Event for us and be happy with your four events each year.
Former Member
I didn't say Master's were paid professionals, I asked how would you feel? Would you think the competition was fair?
AT the risk of keeping this going.
If the softball playoff rules explicitly stated only teams at a certain quality level could play and teams of a greater quality showed up and played then I would be very upset. If the playoff were an open competition where the only requirement was you had to have players 50 years old or older then I wouldn't blame the other teams for exercising their right to participate.
Masters are simply a group of normal people who have varying levels of enthusiasm for participation in swimming (like other SO participants). SOME of them are VERY enthusiastic about their swimming (like some other SO participants) and have, through their intense but amateur interest, become very good at the sport (like some other SO participants).
What I've seen happen often is "regular" SO participants becoming inspired by what they see some Masters swimmers accomplish at SO meets and OTHER "regular" SO participants get really pumped up when they turn in faster times than some of the not-so-fast Masters swimmers. If you ask around, you'll likely find some Masters swimmers in your area who got their first exposure to Masters through SO participation.
I can tell you that in SOME areas of the country the SO organizers are VERY interested in getting as many Masters swimmers involved as possible, even go so far as to seek out Masters people to promote and run the local and regional competitions.
Having been involved in several local SO operations I can tell you that, in many areas there is a STRONG interest in having the best competition possible, and luring as many competitors (including those at the highest levels) as possible in ALL events.
The notion that SO is not intended for participation by those who are good enough to win is, simply, wrong.
(And if I was a pick-up baseball player who had the opportunity to be on the same field WITH the Atlanta braves and actually get struck out by their pitchers and have them run past my base after knocking our stitches over the fence I'd be in hog heaven with my autograph book and have water cooler stories for days. Some people pay big bucks to fantasy camps for such opportunities.)
Okay, this is the last I will say on the subject. I think you all are still missing her point.
Yes, there are varying degrees of swimming abilities and there is nothing wrong with this. But, because of the varying degrees of abilities, the playing field isn't level in Masters or Senior swimming. All she wants is some reasonable chance of winning and that isn't possible when mixed ability groups compete against each other.
OK. I'm converted. I agree there should be a limit to how good a swimmer can be and still participate in Senior Games.
Hmmm...Masters swimmers are not universally in the elite category - some are downright lame-duck slow - so simple participation in Masters couldn't be the dividing line.
And if you take a look at the USMS Top Ten for ages 50-105 you'll see that there is absolutely nothing approaching a level line across ability levels - heck, LOTS of the TT lists don't even HAVE 10 swimmers in them. So USMS Top Ten wouldn't be an equitable dividing line.
So we need to use some other standard to determine what ability level IS acceptable for SO competition. The SO/SG organizers would need to institute what amounts to a reverse time standard - "You cannot swim faster than X to be eligible for SO/SG competition."
But wait! I recall that swim2sea's mother WOULD have medaled if it were not for those selfish Masters swimmers. Hmm...that means she ain't no slouch herself. It would seem to me (and, possibly, to the people she beats) that to get a REALLY level playing field we should insist on setting the SO Reverse Time Standard (SORTS) low enough that she would be ineligible as well.
Maybe what we do is say that only those swimmers who have never medaled in any swimming event (Masters or SG/SO) in their current age group are eligible to swim in any SO/SG competition. And only those who DO NOT medal in a local SG/SO event may advance to the next level of competition. And if you DO medal at some point, you are ineligible for further SG/SO competition till you age up!
Yeah...THAT's the ticket!
Why am I getting visions of the "Masters should have a category for those who started swimming the same day Ion started swimming" thread?
I was a masters newbie at a small local meet in a Short course meter pool
swimming my first 1500 meter event. A tall, fit looking guy was in the next lane. The race started and this guy was gone like a shot. He lapped me time and time again. I finished
about 6 minutes after him, but was pretty happy with my time.
Found out a few minutes later Matt had just set a USMS national
record for the event . I was awed and "honored" that I
just had my butt kicked by a national record holder:D
I was at the meet and competed in the women's 55-59 age group. I spoke with many of the USMS registered swimmers- in fact I was pleased to be able to put a face to the names I've read in the top ten list - and NONE of the swimmers I met were rude or unfriendly. I thought the people I met were a great group.
I did speak to a number of non-USMS master swimmers who - although they did personal best times - kept lamenting that the time they swam this year and did not place with would have been good enough to earn medals in 2001. Instead of focusing on their improved swim they just thought about the medals.
I would suggest that if so many seniors think they are entitled to a medal then perhaps the National Senior Games organization could sell a participation medal at the sovenier stand. It sounds like it could be a great money maker.
In my state there are senior competitions to "get your glory" at the county and state level, depending on the level competitor you are. All competitors at the national senior games had to either place first or second at their state senior games or place third or lower with a qualifying time. To take an attitude that at a National competition we should eliminate the most proficient is ridiculous. What would they want next - to become world champions by limiting the competition too?
There is nothing complicated about your posts, 'Swim to Sea'. Here is your first tip on how to act: If you write something controversial, don't be surprised if people respond. And if they disagree, it is not becuase they do not understand.
Just an observation, perhaps one of the reasons you are a "middle of the road" swimmer is because you do not take it as seriously. Now there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. Just don't try to discourage those who do...
I think you all are missing Swim2sea's point. This is what I believe she is saying. Swim2sea, correct me if I'm wrong.
Suppose you and a group of friends have been getting together, informally to play softball once or twice a week. There is no formal coaching, no hitting, pitching, or fielding drills... just a fun game... Then you all see a play off, you believe to be designed for groups just like yours, advertised. So you and your team mates decide to enter and get very excited about playing another team similar to yours. But, when you get there your team is playing the Atlanta Braves. How would you feel when your team lost?
