There are plenty of under used municipal and school pools across the country that could be bought or managed by an outside organization, just for the promise of occasional public access. USMS is not loaded with money, but has lots of knowledge and experienced people who could pull off a stunt like this. One club in Indiana has done just this thing by taking over a county pool that was in peril of closing because it could not afford to operate it. As far as I know, the agreement is still in force and the USMS club is still paying for operations by its own management and programming.
San Diego has three public pools but cannot afford to keep them all open at once, so they have one or two open and close the other one (or two) on a rotating basis. Not a good way to keep programs filled.
Dues are not going to pay for a pool. I was wondering if a corporation would subsidize is in this venture.
Dues do not pay for the pool. That would be a stupid venture. Our reputation and saved money will negotiate a price for purchase or management of a facility.
USMS once threw $75,000 at a tv commercial that never happened. I do not think all of the budgeted money was used, but some was. We got no return for that. Even if we lose some money on a pool, we should pick up a bunch of new swimmers and maybe a new club.
Corporate sponsorships are available, but we need to be a membership of over 100,000 to attract that kind of money. We have been losing members for 5 years.
The title of the thread is misleading, I am sorry for that and cannot change it. The intention is for USMS to possibly manage OR buy existing pools that are underused. It is possible to get a facility for free, if you agree to certain terms. My proposal is based on the idea that USMS will not be foolish enough to agree to just anything or buy a pool in a flood zone, Cartel war zone or on top of a skyscraper.
Dues should not be affected at all, because operating money should be provided for by program money at the facility. If it only breaks even, we have won a huge victory in keeping one more pool open.
I fully realize that until we operate or own all municipal pools across the country (if one is to dream, one should dream BIG), many members not in proximate driving distance would not have th opportunity to use the pool(s). One of a large number of opportunities would be to install new clubs and new members, neither of which are flooding our rolls in the last 5 years.
Now this makes a lot more sense that what you are getting at is more clear. Without upfront capital, operating expenses are probably not all that bad, especially if the pool is in a shared resource facility (e.g. a municipal civic center), where some operating costs would be reduced. I would suggest that perhaps management of teh pool, rather than ownership, would be a better way to go about this. That would have the potential to reduce the cost to the owner, while still allowing the community resource. Team dues could fill in some gaps. I think there may be some opportunity there as municipalities are going away from city run sports leagues to church and other non-profit run ones.
Here's an example. City near me in an adjoining county has a pool. It has a bubble on it. An older one. My kids' club team used to use it, first as a 5 day per week satellite pool, then a 2 day a week. This past year, the bubble was reported to have failed, and be irrepairable. We found a structure for a tent, used, for a really small price, I think $40K, and presented it to the city. The said said "no, thanks." All kinds of local high schools started raising funds, and working to try to get the bubble replaced. There may be 6 high schools that use that pool. Eventually, the bubble miraculously worked, and it was put up, albeit a couple of months later than normal. Speculation is that the city didn't want to deal with it. If that speculation is right, then it may be ripe for another entity to take over it.
Another interesting take on this would be buying a facility that would also be the annual home to USMS Nationals each year perhaps both SCY and LCM with the addition of a SCM Nationals as well.
USMS needs to do some research, talk to some cities/counties/school districts/etc that might be looking for somebody to assume their management and operation, and then run the numbers on how feasible it might be. Until you have some numbers and a proposed budget for a facility being considered, it's all just a bunch of speculation.
Many facility owners do not even consider that anyone on the outside would try to manage or buy a facility. USMS, if it decides to try, would have to approach pools that are known to have troubles- for whatever reason. If the reason is mismanagement or short sighted programming, we might have a match.
First, the BoD needs to decide that it wants to go this direction. Probably not going to happen anytime soon, if ever. This project would need a lot of ushering and vision. The upside would be remarkable.
I wholeheartedly agree that there are private organizations that could likely do a much better job of running pools than many public parks & rec departments. But, to do that, you need volume of usage - lots of swim lessons, probably a large USAS team, lap swimming lanes, water aerobics, etc. A USMS team is a nice addition to that volume ...
However, even in a great case, I don't imagine you're turning over a huge profit, so I suspect it's a pretty poor investment. If pools were a great investment (beyond hyper-focused and small facilities that only do swim lessons), you'd have private companies popping up around the country to make the business case to municipalities to run their pools. I don't think that's happening in many places because, as much as I love swimming, pools are a community investment in health and not a profit-making venture.
I'd love to be proven wrong.
If you can replicate a situation such as that of the location in Indiana that you mentioned, then I suppose it is possible. But as has already been mentioned here, I think it'll take a nearly around the clock usage of the pool, billable usage, to make things work. Even without capital costs, pools are incredibly expensive to operate.
Anyway, this seems like a situation where USMS needs to do some research, talk to some cities/counties/school districts/etc that might be looking for somebody to assume their management and operation, and then run the numbers on how feasible it might be. Until you have some numbers and a proposed budget for a facility being considered, it's all just a bunch of speculation.
Orca: USMS has money which is currently invested in conservative vehicles, waiting for an opportunity like this. The last number I remember is about $3-5 million. After the covid it may be down, but will rebound.
Are you suggesting that USMS spend their 'rainy day fund' to subsidize the operation and maintenance of swimming pools in order to create greater pool availability for members? This sounds like the prelude to a sizable increase in dues. I'm not against your proposal, per se, it just seems like there are a lot of questions to be answered. Also of note, most members do not participate in USMS national events, nor would most members use one, two or three pools that USMS was operating. This might result in some acrimony from membership were dues to be increased in order to support such a venture.
Our pool (circa 1971, 6 lanes, ~42yd with a bulkhead) has been managed since 2009 by the USA-S team that has swum there for years. Pool is still "owned" by school district, but USA-S team takes on the risk and responsibility of running. Team runs two other pools as well.
It takes a variety of programming to run in the black. Swim lessons - small classes - are a HUGE part of making the whole thing pencil out. Pool time is expensive here bc there isn't any subsidy from a city or county. Example: our masters team dues are $120/month. Takes a very dedicated volunteer Operating Board to keep the pools running. There is a paid exec besides all the paid pool staff. During HS season pool is used from 5am to 10pm (a few dead hours in there). Masters get 6 lanes at 6am (after HS) and 3 lanes at noon. USA-S team has staggered workouts 7 days a week. Lessons are usually 4 students per class. Each class is weekly, so there are a LOT of people signed up for classes at any one time. Newer pool configurations have rec pools which generally support the lap pool as the lessons do in our pools. A lap pool, by itself, usually can't run in the black. Could be different for an outdoor pool in a warm area.
Team could likely profitably operate a modern 50m facility, with separate teaching pool, but we have been unable to get any sort of ballot measure passed to build one.
After reading about the incredibly stringent rules for reopening pools in California (reservations, SD, maps of traffic flow, 2 per lane, etc.), it is now obvious and apparent that USMS should in fact own pools across the country. The simplest way to avoid the burdensome city or county rules is to have a private subscription to join the pool(s) and keep the politics as far away as possible.
