So....here's the thing:
I'm actually getting decent at flipturns. I screw a few of them up, but I always know what I did wrong. The ratio of good flips to bad flips keeps going up. But, because there are usually some bad flips along the way, I haven't set any PRs yet when using flips. I'm at 1:25 100m with (some bad) flips, vs 1:22 with decent open-turns. My 50m is hi-39sec vice hi-38sec.
However....
When flipping, of course we are not breathing through the approach, turn, and pushoff. This is not a problem for me in a hard 50m/100m. But in a hard 400m, I'm dying, Man!! The accumulation of not breathing for this period every 25m has me GASPING after 200m. I crave that open-turn breath.
Maybe I will learn to handle this, but I dunno.
Even if you flip well, should you sometimes do open turns because of the oxygen situation?
I would suspect that if your flip turns are genuinely slower than your open turns, you aren't "flipping" right. And given that you refer to them as "flips," I'm guessing you are focusing to much on spinning around and not enough on getting your feet on the wall and pushing off. The flip turn is a bit of a misnomer for some people - it isn't meant to be a big tuck somersault like you'd do in tumbling or something. Any chance you could video yourself?
Skuj,
A couple of comments:
- Forget everything you read about UDK off the walls (no offense ORCA). At your skill level, it is better to work on a good streamline push-off that takes you out to the flags without kicking or stroking) before surfacing.
- For your races, forget everything you have read about not breathing from the flags into the turn. No one in the world (Olympians included) hold their breathe from the flags in - except on the finish - of a 400 free.
- It sure does sound like you are not exhaling enough (right on ORCA) before taking a breath. This will get you into exhaustion very quickly. Is your chest burning like it is gonna explode? If so, sure sign of CO2 build-up which is only alleviated by exhaling hard and completely before taking your next breath.
- As Jeff suggested, a video might be helpful. In the meantime, do open turns when necessary. In a 400, it is only 7 turns (LCM). Better to be comfortable than distressed.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Paul
:) UDK!! That's just not in my swimming yet. But I'll work on it.
The thing is, after pushing off from a flipturn, I'm dying for that first breath.....then consequently, I'm breathing on every stroke towards the next wall.
My open-trurn PR at 200m is 2:59. This morning I gasped my way through 7 (increasingly bad) flips for 3:13. Normal swimmers keep telling me that flips=faster!! Well, I guess I'm the opposite. :) Flips for me = exhaustion. But perhaps I'm doing it all wrong.
I love you guys!! Thanks so much for the continued input.
Yes....I do believe exhalation is one of the (many) issues here. More comments/questions in due course.
I actually will have videos (from a current coached thing I am doing over 4 Wednesdays). I included a flip or two in the filming. It may be in my hands (via stick-drive) in 3 weeks....then I will try to figure out how to transfer here. :)
Yes, it is obvious to me that I am doing flipturns all wrong. I have some basics down....I've come a long way in a few weeks.....but it should not be exhausting.
I have so much to learn!!! Thank you, USMS Forumites.
No, Spitz definitely did flip turns.
I do think you're being fairly defeatist... you've been working on turns for, what, a couple months now? That's not a long time for an adult to pick up a new skill that requires nee proprioception like a flip turn.
- Forget everything you read about UDK off the walls (no offense ORCA). At your skill level, it is better to work on a good streamline push-off that takes you out to the flags without kicking or stroking) before surfacing.
(snip)
Better to be comfortable than distressed.
I assume you mean me, and not ORCA, since I brought it up. To clarify, I mention it only to help the OP better train to learn to cope with the periods of oxygen deprivation during a swim. I don't mean to work on it as a skill, so to speak, but conditioning. I, too, had issues with flip turns when I started swimming a couple of years ago for the same reasons. I actually do very few of them during my warm up. But as I carried my underwaters further and further, the flip turn because less and less a source of exhaustion. Which - anecdotally - fell in line with your last point. For me, once I was comfortable not breathing for several seconds from increasing my time underwater, the flip turn came much more naturally.
I guess I'd put it like this. Getting teh steps to a turn right are hard, and require concentration. It is hard to concentrate when you are worried about breathing the whole time. If you can take care of the mind screaming at you to breathe, then focusing on the technique becomes easier.
Again, YMMV. I'm a solo swimmer so I've had to play with things to figure out what works best for me, so those answers may not be in line with what a coached swimmer would experience.
I found this interesting, and it perfectly describes my current flipturn/oxygen problem:
www.h2oustonswims.org/.../its_a_matter_of_style.html
Part of me wants to learn good open-turning. I guess that's what Spitz and co did in the good old days of having to hand-touch the wall, right? :) I should look at those videos!!!
But perhaps I am being defeatist.
