And the ESPY goes to....

We kick butt in all sports. Then why is it that the China and Russia dominate Diving. And our men's Water Polo has not medaled since 1984. Also, we use to dominate Sychorized Swimming. Now Russia and Japan do. Most of the rowing and boat events at the olympics are dominated by Europeian countries. And in winter sports until this last olympics the Europeians dominated. Gymnastics we do good some times and other times we are not in the running. And the most popular viewed sport by women in this country, Figure Skating is dominated by Russia. So, there are a lot of sports that the United States is not number one.

Lord, we have gotten off a bit. First of all (sorry Aquageek), I can't stand NASCAR. Nor can I stand the personalities and moral graveyard that is the NBA. Conversely, however, I think to many non-swimmers (and a few actual swimmers), swimming IS boring. My point is that we all have our own interests and passions. NASCAR IS fine and does present good role models. I have NO issues with it. The media and sponsors go where the crowds and attendance are. Our sport (swimming) is not one that is considered as marketable in this country with the alternatives presented. Look at the sports WORLD: Soccer is king in South America, England, and many others-but not here. American Football is huge here, but you cannot sell it to the Australians or Eastern Europe. Swimming and Aussie Rules Football are the world to Australia. This example with various sports can go on and on. This will likely not change in the near future. Swimming cannot be molded to fit a marketing idea or sponsors image. "Dash for Cash" events, relay meet format, USA vs AUS; these may be one-shot hits, but they wouldn't sustain the interest of the viewer, sponsor, and likely swimmer. HOWEVER, TO TRY TO ATTACH PRIZE MONEY TO USMS EVENTS WOULD BE A TRAVESTY. We do this for the fun, the friendships, the personal goals, and the honest (we hope) competition. Leave the money to the big boys, the pros. We don't need the issues (on a significantly smaller scale) that are affecting our pro leagues related to money. Let's just swim. I, for one, would NEVER accept part of my USMS membership going to prize monies for the best in our association--we all compete and swim together. There is no need to attach that crap to what we do.

I remember watching a nationals at Mission Viejo in the late 1970's. At that time half of the parents in Mission Viejo put their kids in swimming. No wonder at that time they were probably the best team in the nation. Anyway, it wasn't a bad size group for swimming. I think that where Lenny K lives that people are jaded toward most sports. Some are into the Lakers because they are winning or when the Dodgers win but LA is not a real sports town. And there are so many top sportpeople there . There are people that follow Tennis and Lindsey Davenport lives in Newport Beach. Figure Skaters Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen live there besides the pro- team sports people. Lenny K just gets lost in the group there. But he is right most places in the States don't have much interest in watching swimming.

I think maybe Ion has found his calling, since he feels the TV Sports industry does swimming such an injustice then he should follow his capitilistic urges and go forth and conquer. I believe that is how things are suppose to be done, if you believe televised swimming is such a vast untapped market in the US then start making your contacts now (sponsors, television stations, agents, etc.) and sell the sport. Personally I would rather watch a sporting event in person, good luck. Jeff

I've almost given up watching, either on television or in person (which is probably why I've never heard of the ESPY award.) I can't stand the ads, the crowds, the sitting around doing nothing, the pharmocological freaks and related suspicions, the spoiled athletes, and the dominance of money. I'll read about it in the newspaper, but those mega-businesses aren't getting any of my money. I'd rather participate - either as athlete or as an official.

Here's a suggestion, but it's not original... it should be state-mandated that all kids in elementary school learn how to swim, then from there it would be the moderators' responsibilities to encourage those with even an inkling of potential to try and make the next step towards swimming competitively. Learn to swim programs are dropping off the face of the earth. They used to be school funded, now they have to be paid for by the participants. When that happened, it severly limited the amount of people that would be exposed to true swimming during their developmental years. That type of program should be reinstated. And here's another that kind of goes along with that... I used to lap swim in a city park that had a 50mx25y pool. The recreational half of the pool was swarmed with kids who loved the water, many were minorities. Some used to even venture over to the lap side and swim on occasion just to try it out. One little girl, probably 8 saw a guy in the lane next to me with a kickboard and asked her older brother for one. He got her one, the lifeguard came over and said "You can't play in that pool." How nice is that?!?! So she imitated the older guy and kicked with the board for about 6 lengths. I'm surprised she even bothered after being yelled at. That's a kid who should be encouraged. But anyway, the club that works out there costs about $80/month to belong. Do you think those city kids can afford that? There is a perfect opportunity for a city-sponsored club team with a nominal fee, where the city could pay for coaches, equipment, and pool time is free (a city-owned park). Think of what could be done by opening up the sport to another 200-300 kids that could otherwise not have afforded it. And that's just one city. Where's the initiative to do this? Is USA-S going to do something like this? The sport has to be built from the ground up. Recruiting more participation at USMS meets is a reactive measure. Being sure that we have a swimming-conscious nation from the elementary years is a proactive measure. I estimate it would cost a city between 75 and 100K to run a city-sponsored club. That would pay for coach salaries, assistant wages, pool equipment, swim suits, caps, goggles, meet entry fees for the swimmers. The swimmers in return maybe pay $10/month to belong. Not much but enough that if they pay it, they'll stick with it. And they should be assured that every part of their $10 is used in return for them. In a city with 120,000 taxpayers, this is less than a dollar a year to support a worthwile program. It's not as if I have said Ion's ideas are horrible and left it at that, I have given reasoning behind why they won't work. That's kind of a negative approach (but dad - he started it! :rolleyes: ) but it will be difficult to create a general interest in swimming among the American population unless that American population is immersed in the sport. That's why it's popular in Australia. We in the US are immersed in LL Baseball, hence MLB on TV every night. Oh well. -RM

I apologize for my glass half empty view, but it comes from personal/professional experience. Lately there has been a lot of budget cuts in Portland Parks and Recreation - this summer they shut down two of their pools because of lack of funds, other facilities have shut down or severly cut back on services, even Seattle is having a rough time of it. I was actually responsible for a program similiar to what Rain man mentions. Our program started at the beginning of the school year where we took High School students from the local school district and began training them to be swim instructors, after two months these newly trained instructors would then teach swim lessons to the school districts 3rd and 4th grade elementary students. As budgeting became tighter, the Park and Recreation district decided they didn'y want to pay my portion of salary while I was conducting this program because it didn't benefit the Parks District and the School district didn't want to pay my portion of the salary to conduct this program so it was dropped. The facility I worked at was actually quite profitable in regards to pools (we usually covered 90% or better of our operating costs - the national average I believe is under 50%). This is just one example, another example is we recently had several drowings along a stretch of river, the cities have decided to buck-up and pay to have lifeguards stationed there which will cost them about 50k (and this took a while to resolve and several deaths). I just can't see a city/agency spending 75k on a program when it can't even find enough money to keep its facilities open. I know I sound very negative, swimming is definitely very worthwhile as a sport, hobby, distraction whatever you want to call, but reality is it takes alot of money to keep a pool open compared to a soccer field, baseball diamond or a basketball court.

Originally posted by Paul Smith Whatever anyone on this thread thinks about Ion, he is the only one who has stepped up to the challenge of providing ideas as to how we can grow and promote the sport of swimming. It's real easy to sit at your computer and trash a person and his ideas. It's also very easy to sit at your computer and find every reason why an idea won't work. Ion, I don't agree with all your ideas but I applaud your passion for swimming and willingness to step up and take the hits. Aquageek, Rain Man and all the rest of you who are getting so riled about Ion have not provided one original thought of your own that is postive and creative and helps promote our sport. But boy you all are sure good at personal attacks, Im really impressed! ... Thank you Paul. I feel the same about this. I know Paul, from the forum and three encounters in competitions, as a courageous and talented man, a leader.

Whatever anyone on this thread thinks about Ion, he is the only one who has stepped up to the challenge of providing ideas as to how we can grow and promote the sport of swimming. It's real easy to sit at your computer and trash a person and his ideas. It's also very easy to sit at your computer and find every reason why an idea won't work. Ion, I don't agree with all your ideas but I applaud your passion for swimming and willingness to step up and take the hits. Aquageek, Rain Man and all the rest of you who are getting so riled about Ion have not provided one original thought of your own that is postive and creative and helps promote our sport. But boy you all are sure good at personal attacks, Im really impressed! Sometime back Emmett gave an example of soliciting donations which were raffles off to the volunteers (and participants I think) which I though was a great incentive. A team here in Colorado attempted to organize a "dash for cash" masters meet that most likely would have one off great if it were'nt for our state being on fire (by the way, everyone I spoke to loved the idea of having something different such as cash prizes). Organizations such as the Adult Swimming group are thinking "outside the box" on the competitive side and getting people interested, I would hope those of us on the USMS side would be open to exploring the same!

When I joined this forum in the spring of 2001, I was getting an impression of stale conservatism, and of a consensus that the participation in competitions and bragging about times, is a 'sin' since these should better be 'inner secret pleasures'. For example, at that time, one topic was about 'shocking' Jenny Thompson having posed topless -with covering hands though- in Sports Illustrated, but me after eleven years spent in France I was being used -while in my 20s- to about 50% of young fit women being topless in public pools, and another topic was about "...growing up..." which allegedly happens when one doesn't compete and doesn't brag about times, to which I counteracted by posting my best times as a late starter in the sport. Originally posted by Paul Smith ... Organizations such as the Adult Swimming group are thinking "outside the box" on the competitive side and getting people interested, I would hope those of us on the USMS side would be open to exploring the same! What ideas by the "...Adult Swimming group..." "...on the competitive side ... getting people interested..." is this about?