500 free improvement needed

Hi! I am also working on building a better 500. I wonder if you need to mix up your workouts more? doing the same thing at the same pace is unlikely to elicit a change in your swimming. Lots of great suggestions previously in the thread... sets I like to mix in repeat 50s at pace on shorter interval- say :45, holding 32-33, doing 8-10 of these or more repeat 100s on a tough interval 1:15 doing 6-8 of these, okay to just make it repeat 100s on long rest like 2:00, holding sub-goal 500 pace maybe 4-6 total 16 x25s on :30 holding 'd meet your goal of 630 on the workout plan you describe, it would be close. However, you are male and I am female, so that does mean that our training effect will have differing results.

Thanks for the info. A couple questions if you don't mind. 1. how many strokes per length do you take, and how far off the wall to you get on the turns? to the flags or more? 2. do you use any UDK's on the turn? 3. do you watch heart rate at all on the hard sets? I get to 190 pretty quick on the short intervals. It does recover better than a year ago in 10-15 seconds. 4. I used to do a lot of 100s on 2:00, sub goal 500 pace. Maybe I should mix that in once a week again.A few thoughts for comparison: 1) When racing, I'm probably 13 SPL (strokes per length) on 25 yards, but the first ~150-200 might be at 11-12 SPL and the last 100 might be at 14-15 (I count each arm as one). However, I am 6'4" 2) 1-2 SDKs ... too many more and I'd be sacrificing oxygen 3) I do a heart rate test set periodically from Dave Salo that is awesome for conditioning check. If you Google "Salo Pulse Plot," you'll find an excerpt from his excellent book, "Complete Conditioning for Swimming" 4) If you're going to do 100s and try to simulate your race pace, aim for an interval that gives you about 10-15 seconds of rest. So, when I'm trying to get sub 5:00, I'll aim to do 5 x 100 on 1:15 and hold as close to 1:00 as possible. If you're doing more than 5, you can increase the rest interval, but I wouldn't do more than 20 seconds rest. Otherwise, there's just too much recovery time and it stops simulating the fatigue of a race.

Think I posted it elsewhere in this thread: 10x100 @ 2:00 best average is one I use often. I used it when I coached as well. I realize a better “feel” for 500 pace is trying to hold your goal pace with short rest, but I also feel like occasionally you need to FEEL what your particular necessary speed for the 500 is. When my goal was to break 5:00 years ago, and when I coached girls who wanted to break 5:00, I was coached and coached them to think like this: to break 5:00 you need to average under 1:00 on every 100. How can you possibly do that if you don’t know what it feels like to go under 1:00 again and again? So I used a best average set like above to promote this. The BARE MINIMUM for someone wanting to break 5:00 was to see :59s every time. Now obviously if you could hold better than that across the whole set, all the better. But it also encouraged being under your goal pace when you were just completely gassed (usually around #7!). to each their own, but I think best average sets are a useful training tool for the 500. just to add: obviously you don’t NEED to go under 1:00 on every 100 to break 5:00. Last winter I was 4:58 and split it 55.9/1:00.4/1:00.4/1:00.9/1:00.7. Sometimes you just have to get out after it on that first 100 and then fall into your rhythm. On that swim I probably could have held 1:00s through the 1000 I felt so smooth. and also I realize breaking 5:00 isn’t the goal of the poster(s) but I use that time cause (a) that’s my benchmark for myself for a good 500 and (b) it makes the math easy :)

Thanks for the info. A couple questions if you don't mind. 1. how many strokes per length do you take, and how far off the wall to you get on the turns? to the flags or more? 2. do you use any UDK's on the turn? 3. do you watch heart rate at all on the hard sets? I get to 190 pretty quick on the short intervals. It does recover better than a year ago in 10-15 seconds. 4. I used to do a lot of 100s on 2:00, sub goal 500 pace. Maybe I should mix that in once a week again. 5. I see "best average" used a lot, but I don't know what that means, could you explain? assuming these questions are for me 1. i take 7 or 7.5 stroke cycles per 25 yds. i am 5'6. i always come up after the flags even if i'm just warming up. i do a legit streamline on all turns every set every day and keep my head down through the break out. 2. for the 500 i will do 1 or maybe 2 udk off each wall. i don't think everyone should do this... i have a pretty good aerobic engine (no speed, just endurance over here), so i can handle a little less o2 off the wall. my udk's are immediate, not after a glide. time yourself doing both ways to determine what is right for you. 3. i do not watch my heart rate other than spot checks... my resting pulse is 45-50 and it just doesn't seem to get up that high in practice unless doing AO 50's in close proximity 4. i agree you should be mixing your workouts up so that you can build different skills and different parts of your engine 5. best average, to me, means the fastest pace I can hold across the set. so for example 10x 25s fr on :30 my best average will probably be 14h or 15L, but if i did them 'all out' the first couple would be faster and then i would deteriorate. steady pacing is an important skill-- for example a couple days ago i was doing descend 50s and can tell you before i touch the wall what each one is and descend just by 1 second like 36-35-34-33-32-31-30-29. It passes the time... good luck this weekend! don't be afraid of the second half- that is where the fun of racing lies in the 500!

A few thoughts for comparison: 1) When racing, I'm probably 13 SPL (strokes per length) on 25 yards, but the first ~150-200 might be at 11-12 SPL and the last 100 might be at 14-15 (I count each arm as one). However, I am 6'4" 2) 1-2 SDKs ... too many more and I'd be sacrificing oxygen 3) I do a heart rate test set periodically from Dave Salo that is awesome for conditioning check. If you Google "Salo Pulse Plot," you'll find an excerpt from his excellent book, "Complete Conditioning for Swimming" 4) If you're going to do 100s and try to simulate your race pace, aim for an interval that gives you about 10-15 seconds of rest. So, when I'm trying to get sub 5:00, I'll aim to do 5 x 100 on 1:15 and hold as close to 1:00 as possible. If you're doing more than 5, you can increase the rest interval, but I wouldn't do more than 20 seconds rest. Otherwise, there's just too much recovery time and it stops simulating the fatigue of a race. looking at your SPL like WOAH until i see that you've got 10" on me...

Thanks for the info. A couple questions if you don't mind. 1. how many strokes per length do you take, and how far off the wall to you get on the turns? to the flags or more? 2. do you use any UDK's on the turn? 3. do you watch heart rate at all on the hard sets? I get to 190 pretty quick on the short intervals. It does recover better than a year ago in 10-15 seconds. 4. I used to do a lot of 100s on 2:00, sub goal 500 pace. Maybe I should mix that in once a week again. 5. I see "best average" used a lot, but I don't know what that means, could you explain?

took some video today. I really don't think I've changed much. Disappointing, need more technique work and video. Maybe left arm EVF is a little better, doesn't seem to drop right away. right arm not much better. Left foot flick is still there. back half still low in the water. link to video: link fixed (date time on video not accurate)1drv.ms/.../s!AJJUMQl1sh_KhD0 Thanks for sending the updated videos. Your stroke has changed for the better. I can see you have definitely improved your underwater pull. Keep working on the EVF with both arms - you're catching less air during your left arm pull, but due to the angle of your entry into the water with your right hand, you tend to catch more air with the right arm (see screenshots below). Finally, you need to work on keeping your head more still while you are swimming, especially when you are reaching your arm. Overall though, great job - you got a lot of good advice regarding conditioning - now continue to work on building up good stroke mechanics for an efficient and faster swim! 12333 12334

Hello Stephen, I hope this message finds you well! My name is Joey Pedraza, a little bit about my background. I used to swim the the 500 FR (4.15) in high school and college, then joined Team USA in Open Water Swimming, to now extreme open water swims . I am currently a Swim coach, Personal Trainer and Nutrition Specialist. I believe I can help you with you 500 FR goal, and Id love to be part of this journey. If you are still looking to improve you 500 pacing, power, and endurance- Id love to help, Feel free to reach back to me. Cheers, Stay Safe, Joey