tricep fatigue

When we talk about stroke count, we count left hand then right hand entry as 2 (i.e. both hands are counted), right? And why would the SPL be larger when sprinting 25 than going 500m? For me, it would be at the lower end of the range when sprinting. As long as I'm only doing 25 / 50 a single time, my SPL does not vary much between different speeds, but between 50 / 500, there is a great difference.

Thanks for the info: Two things to keep in mind: a) Your stroke count should not change very much (1-3 strokes/length) regardless of the speed you are swimming. The more strokes/length you take, the slower you will go. b) Spend some time counting the strokes of the other people in the pool who are so much faster than you (you mentioned this in another post). They are probably consistently in the low 40s/50 meter length. Like 67king, I am 5'8" and, regardless of speed, take 14-15 strokes/25 yd pool. In my younger, faster days, I was down in the 11-12 strokes/length - probably because I pushed off further. In a 50 meter pool, I take 34-36 depending on my focus on the finish of each stroke. Again, this is regardless of speed. When a swimmers' stroke count increases as they go faster, it is because they are NOT finishing the stroke. This will negatively impact their entry, their catch, the timing of their kick, and they will feel like they spin their wheels. Will be interested to hear how many strokes the other swimmers are taking. paul

Without seeing you swim, it's very difficult for us to determine where your stroke technique issues lie. What aspects did your coach point out regarding your legs? There might be an overall issue with your technique that is causing you to rely primarily on your upper body, thus tiring your triceps very quickly. In order to eliminate weaknesses in your stroke, however, you need to isolate and work on improving those areas. You obviously have a large workload in terms of fullstroke, but how are your practices designed? Try to find a coach - remotely or on-deck - who can design workouts that target your overall swimming needs, especially the triceps.

Did I miss it ? Do you go to the gym to improve muscle strength?

When a swimmers' stroke count increases as they go faster, it is because they are NOT finishing the stroke. This will negatively impact their entry, their catch, the timing of their kick, and they will feel like they spin their wheels. Thank you! I had been assuming I was pretty normal. I know my sprints are pretty atrocious. My 100 feels "best" and I practice much closer to NQT in that one than the others. I'm probably overextending a little on the longer ones. Circling back to the OP, I suspect that boxes pretty well, though I'd be a little more inclined to focus on the start, rather than the finish, based on what I see other inefficient swimmers do.

I never go to the gym, at least not in these few years. My coach told me that, at the moment I was tired, my legs were wide open when I took a breath.

Miklcct, I will comment on a couple of things: a) I do NOT believe you need to do more tricep strength work - at this time. Everything about this thread suggests, to me anyway, that your technique results in the triceps being used in a non-efficient way. Your time would be better spent on technique instead of strengthening. b) I am gonna speculate about your legs during your breathing - without seeing a video. My speculation is that you have excessive rolling onto your side when you breathe. If this is the case, your legs will open (I read this as spreading apart) to counter-balance your upper body rotation. To confirm this, if both of your goggles are out of the water when you breathe, you are rotating too much. When you breathe, keep one goggle in the water. Excessive rotation while breathing will reduce your distance per stroke and can lead to elbow first pulling as well as huge cross overs during the pull. These will lead to excess tricep fatigue. c) Have you counted the strokes of other swimmers who are faster than you? In my opinion, this is an important learning opportunity. I get the feeling you think that increasing stroke count/length is ok if it comes with increased intensity or distance of the repeat. These are incorrect assessments if you think this way. Watch a video of Caleb Dressel and try to swim like he does - not in terms of speed though. Try to emulate his technique. He is among the best at "holding" onto the water regardless of his speed. See what happens. :) Good Luck

I never go to the gym, at least not in these few years. My coach told me that, at the moment I was tired, my legs were wide open when I took a breath. If you're not able to get to the gym, you should still work on incorporating dryland training in your routine if you want to strengthen swimming-specific muscles like your triceps. One way to do it is to use stretch cordz (according to your level) - that will allow you to work on your pull to a limited extent. The better way of working the correct pulling technique is with a Vasa Ergometer. The Ergometer is an excellent swim bench that allows you to work on the proper pull -technique specifically the early vertical forearm. This will strengthen triceps and lats, and will help you to swim with the correct technique at the same time. If you want more details, here's an article about the Ergometer: www.swimspire.com/.../ Based on your coach's observations, it also looks like there is a disconnect between your upper and lower body and some instability in your stroke while you are breathing. If you have a wide kick when you breathe, you are slowing yourself down and trying to compensate by placing more of the burden on your upper body. Coupled with weak triceps, and high intensity training, this could lead to shoulder injuries in the future, so, again, find a coach who can give you specific sets and variety in your workouts that will be geared towards correcting your stroke and strengthening the muscles you need to swim more efficiently. Good luck.

I haven't got the time to observe the others yet - my schedule is currently very tight, perhaps will do it on Friday. I joined the squad training this morning and the coach told me to do some drill which was contrary to what I was trying to do before joining the squad: She told me to use more of my legs (kick more) - previously I always tried do no more than 2-beat kick because I heard that 6-beat kick would cause my legs so tired such that I couldn't do any bike / run afterwards. She also told me that I glided too much such that I stopped during the glide and to do my stroke faster (!) - as mentioned before I was working at about 58 spl / 58 strokes per minute before, making slightly more than a minute per 50-meter length - but what I previously tried to do was to reduce both numbers - until spl goes down to 45 and sr goes down to 52 (by training with various amount of gliding) - to conserve my energy for running afterwards. What she told me to do was the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I did previously! Near the end of the session, she put a tempo trainer in my cap and told me to do as fast as it beeped - but at that stroke rate I couldn't sustain anything more than 100 meters! I tried the swim smooth swim type questionnaire but it suggests I am an arnie - which is impossible and totally insane! I matched basically NONE of the description of an arnie! The description suggests I might be a bambino or an overglider instead. I am a software engineer and develop PHP applications in my work. I have recently joined an OWS race of 3.7 km with negligible current, and completed at 1 hours, 25 minutes and 45 seconds.

miklcct, This last post is very helpful on several different levels. a) First: I get that you don't believe you are an "Arnie." However, when I read the description and watched the videos, an "arnie" or maybe "overglider" is what I would have guessed your style is. To my eyes, the primary characteristic of these styles is the lack of body balance in the water: feet are low, hips are too high, pull is with a straight arm or severely bent elbow, kick is from the knee. These styles suggest a swimmer trying to swim on top of the water instead of through it. b) Second: Using a 6 beat kick does not mean you have to go fast. A 6 beat kick simply means the number of kicks per 2 arm pulls. If your legs are getting that tired from 6 beat kicking, you need to change your technique. In a post in January 2018 (Face Down Floating), I showed one way to get comfortable with body balance. I suggest you find that post and see if you can float like the video. I also call it "streamline floating." If you find this hard to do, I encourage you to spend the time to figure it out - even at the expense of less laps. A favorite saying of mine is "You cannot train enough to overcome inefficient technique." Good Luck