Instead of DQing for a False Start

Michael - Not sure why you think this is so subjective, it only says that officials cannot DQ a legal swim for rules broken after it has finished. Although this may be attractive to some officials trying to deal with a real jerk, it seems to be pretty objective to me. Rule 102.13.14 reads: "A swimmer who misrepresents a seed time, causing a significant delay of the meet, may be disqualified at the discretion of the referee. The disqualified swimmer shall be removed from the lane as soon as practical." If you this rule is objective and can be consistently applied, please define "misrepresents", "significant", "may", "discretion", or "practical" for me??? Each of these can only be determined through the eyes of the referee and I know at least two who will not invoke this rule under any circumstances because it is so vague. You are missing the simplicity of this change. The rules do not change. The only change is some infractions that used to result in a "DQ" now have a time penalty and the time does not change from infraction to infraction. It would always be whatever could be agreed to - I like 5 seconds. Some of your examples - "Turning in the middle of the lane, running starts" - cannot take place now. If someone tried, they would still be "DQs" like they are now. The penalty would be written into the meet management software. Try some other reasons why not to - I am enjoying this. :) Paul

Now, if we are worried about being subjective, there is one rule in our rule books under Swimming Competition that should not be there - it is about as subjective as it gets. Read rule 102.13.14. Not sure why you think this is so subjective, it only says that officials cannot DQ a legal swim for rules broken after it has finished. Although this may be attractive to some officials trying to deal with a real jerk, it seems to be pretty objective to me. As for your thread subject, I can only find reasons to include everyone in every race, no matter how they perform. Different fines for leaving early, swimming the wrong stroke, turning in the middle of the course, changing lanes, running starts. The list is as endless as your imagination. All that is needed is a comprehensive table of fines.

Michael - Rule 102.13.14 reads: "A swimmer who misrepresents a seed time, causing a significant delay of the meet, may be disqualified at the discretion of the referee. The disqualified swimmer shall be removed from the lane as soon as practical."... Paul, just as a point of clarification, the language you cited above is from article 102.13.15 in the 2018 Rule Book. What Michael mentions below is from article 102.13.14.

Hi Mollie - I do not have the 2018 rule book yet. My only reference is the 2017 rule book that Mary Beth has. :) Paul

You are missing the simplicity of this change. The rules do not change. The only change is some infractions that used to result in a "DQ" now have a time penalty and the time does not change from infraction to infraction. It would always be whatever could be agreed to - I like 5 seconds. Some of your examples - "Turning in the middle of the lane, running starts" - cannot take place now. If someone tried, they would still be "DQs" like they are now.I’m not sure how simple this would be. I sometimes see no touch on turn DQ’s today and they are always from a swimmer mistiming a turn and missing the wall by inches. These no touches almost always result in a slower turn than if the swimmer has hit the wall. Unless there is something build into the rules to differentiate missed it by an inch or missed it by a mile then they need to be treated the same. The same would hold true for relay exchanges. A 5 second penalty for an early takeoff on a -0.04 makes sense, but if there is a 5 second penalty then I’m starting my fly when the breaststroker is turning at the far end. Now when a swimmer is DQed there is only 1 DQ. In Paul’s brave new world is there 1 or multiple penalties per swimmer. E.g. in the 100 *** a swimmer uses a downward dolphin kick on each stroke; is this 1 5 second penalty for downward dolphin kick or 40 5 second penalties for each kick? My dolphin kick *** is at least 10 seconds faster than that froggy thing, so I would easily make up the 5 seconds, but 3:20 in penalties would be a little tougher.

HI Rob, Thanks for posting. The answer to your situations was something I covered a few responses back. These situations involving gross violations would be dealt with through unsportsmanlike conduct decisions by the officials on the pool deck. These would be automatic DQs. Someone turning in the middle of the pool or flagrantly taking 2-3-4 strokes on their stomach during a backstroke turn or repeated violations (your dolphin kick vs the froggy thing) would fall into this category. As for the person who misses the wall by an inch, I hate DQing the person because they had not helped themselves. However, this one would be processed as a DQ because the person did not complete the required race distance. Relays have to a have a cumulative positive exchange when all three are added up. The exchange you describe would either be a flagrant exchange (DQ for unsportsmanlike) or would require the next swimmer (freestyle in this example) to wait an equally long time after you touched the wall if the relay were to be legal. And, remember, I suggested 5 seconds as the penalty. The Rules committee could just as easily decide 10 secs or 15 or 20 sec is a fair penalty. Or, the penalty could be based on the length of the race, so your dolphin kick vs froggy thing could not be a benefit. :) What do you think? Paul

I generally swim 50-200m events but I think I would rather get a DQ than get an official result with a 5 second penalty.

Hi Mollie - I do not have the 2018 rule book yet. My only reference is the 2017 rule book that Mary Beth has. :) Paul For Paul, and anyone else interested, the 2018 Rule Book can be found in an electronic format at http://www.usms.org/rules/

Paul, I like the concept of less than DQ penalties. And I’ve seen my fair share of DQ’s as a result of non-advantageous activities (rocking back at start, toes missing wall on turn, mid-pool goggle adjustment on fly/*** with flutter kick). My main issues are 1) I don’t see this radical change getting through FINA or USA-S in my lifetime, 2) we might see more swimmers trying to get away with stuff since the penalty isn’t as severe, 3) it adds another level of complexity to officiating, was the infraction incidental, beneficial, flagrant, unsporting, etc; instead of what was observed, 4) the DQ slip would need to be modified to accommodate changes, and 5) as you mentioned meet management software would need enhancements. Unless USA –S adopted this radical philosophy, I don’t see USA-S changing DQ slips for USMS and I don’t see Active and other meet management software vendors making the necessary enhancements. But if we suspend reality, I like the discussion. Kind of like who would win a 400 Medley Relay between the Justice League and the Avengers. Mixed Medley, clearly Justice League. BK Superman, BR The Flash, fly Hawk Girl( if you allow her, Supergirl instead), free Wonder Woman. Swimming Barry Allen, he could go fast enough to reverse time, so it doesn't matter how slow the others are. They would still finish before they started. In answer to the question, can he swim BR? he was my childhood hero, so of course he can, also, you can't DQ what you can't see.

What do you think? Paul, I like the concept of less than DQ penalties. And I’ve seen my fair share of DQ’s as a result of non-advantageous activities (rocking back at start, toes missing wall on turn, mid-pool goggle adjustment on fly/*** with flutter kick). My main issues are 1) I don’t see this radical change getting through FINA or USA-S in my lifetime, 2) we might see more swimmers trying to get away with stuff since the penalty isn’t as severe, 3) it adds another level of complexity to officiating, was the infraction incidental, beneficial, flagrant, unsporting, etc; instead of what was observed, 4) the DQ slip would need to be modified to accommodate changes, and 5) as you mentioned meet management software would need enhancements. Unless USA –S adopted this radical philosophy, I don’t see USA-S changing DQ slips for USMS and I don’t see Active and other meet management software vendors making the necessary enhancements. But if we suspend reality, I like the discussion. Kind of like who would win a 400 Medley Relay between the Justice League and the Avengers.