Now that I've gone through the hassle of signing up as a member of this dicussion group, this gets more and more fun. Maybe I'll get fired from my job :)
Anyway... I'm sure that ALL Masters level swimmers have heard of Total Immersion (from now on referred to as TI) swimming, correct? What are everyone's opinions about TI swimming? I am most curious because as a coach of age group swimmers, I was looking for training videos for our kids. I happened upon TI and liked what I saw... at first.
Here's some background for my experience with TI... very well put together, most of what they teach has been in existence for some time anyway, and they certainly are good for teaching novice/beginner swimmers the basic technique for swimming.
However, when looking to swim fast, and I mean fast, not lap swim quality, but truly competitively, I thing TI has missed to boat completely. Yes, smooth and efficient swimming is nice, but did anyone see the NCAA's? There are 20 year old men swimming 9 strokes per length in breaststroke! We have a number of age group coaches in my area teaching their kids how to swim breaststroke at 6 or 7 strokes a length!!! What gives? Extended glide is one thing, but when you slow down your stroke to such an extent just to achieve long and fluid strokes you sacrifice speed tremendously.
Hey, if you can swim 9 strokes a length at 1 second per stroke that is WAY better than 6 strokes a length at 2 seconds per stroke. Simple math.
Anthony Ervin of Cal swam the 100 free in the follwing SPL... 12 (start)/15/16/16. I could be off but that's what I was able to get from the (ahem- PALTRY) ESPN coverage. Now TI has goal SPL's of 12/13! Hello, if the BEST sprinter in history takes 8 cycles, shouldn't that tell us something? Turnover is very important. Same with streamlining, yes streamlines are nice and quite important but A.E. pops up after 5 yards MAX out of each turn. You only serve yourself well if your streamline is faster than you can swim, most age group swimmers would be well-served to explode out of the turn and swim within 3-4 yards.
Alas, it's been a slow day finishing my work for the week. Just looking to start a nice discussion. It's been my experience that a lot of Masters level swimmers are also engaged in coaching age group swimming at some level, and therefore I feel we can get some good dialogue going on this issue.
Now I've just used TI as an example because that's what I've had my experience with, but more general is what keys do you all stress when trying to mold competitive swimmers?
Au revoir,
-Rain Man
Parents
Former Member
This is true:
Originally posted by breastroker
...
Ion has paid for extra lessons, and has changed teams to get closer to his goals.
...
Regarding this:
Originally posted by breastroker
...
To be frank, Michael Collins is the best freestyle coach I know. If I were Ion I would at least make the drive to one of Michaels clinics.
...
I refer to my post October 2, for example to this portion:
Originally posted by Ion Beza
...
My decided approach to improving on my current times, is to find a program that restores what times I had, from end of 1986 until June 1996.
Afterwards, improve on the restored times with small, careful changes that don't dismantle the style, and shift problems forever.
If I don't have my times restored under a new program, I am fine with this search.
...
It shows that to go forward, I want to restore what once worked for me, then try baby steps from there.
If Michael Collins were reaspecting this foremost, which is molding technique into an existing swimmer and not molding a swimmer into existing technique, then -work permitting- I would consider the commute.
However, my October 2 post also shows that TI is described below as a dismantling of habits, even the ones that worked and do work today, and replacing this with a fuzzy future, shifting problems:
see "...Maybe..." in it,
see Matt's post 'Truth in advertising' about his 5:18 in 2001 and 5:21 in 2002,
see Bill White's thread 'TI advice: stroke length vs rate',
and see my evaluation of my own rate and length, that I posted October 2.
Originally posted by MetroSwim
...
I had to initially work through two solid months of drilling just to overcome my old muscle memory, doing TI drills and VERY LITTLE swimming with my masters team.
...
One of the biggest issues I ran into was fighting my old habits. Muscle memory was my biggest opponent.
...
Here's another thing which I have a feeling you'll find shocking - I don't care about my times in the pool this year. I'm working on RADICAL changes to my technique.
...
Am I faster for having embraced TI? Maybe, But I'm certainly not slower.
...
And I enjoy it so much more now.
...
This TI description, to me, is like if I were a musician and being asked to play music that I don't want.
This is true:
Originally posted by breastroker
...
Ion has paid for extra lessons, and has changed teams to get closer to his goals.
...
Regarding this:
Originally posted by breastroker
...
To be frank, Michael Collins is the best freestyle coach I know. If I were Ion I would at least make the drive to one of Michaels clinics.
...
I refer to my post October 2, for example to this portion:
Originally posted by Ion Beza
...
My decided approach to improving on my current times, is to find a program that restores what times I had, from end of 1986 until June 1996.
Afterwards, improve on the restored times with small, careful changes that don't dismantle the style, and shift problems forever.
If I don't have my times restored under a new program, I am fine with this search.
...
It shows that to go forward, I want to restore what once worked for me, then try baby steps from there.
If Michael Collins were reaspecting this foremost, which is molding technique into an existing swimmer and not molding a swimmer into existing technique, then -work permitting- I would consider the commute.
However, my October 2 post also shows that TI is described below as a dismantling of habits, even the ones that worked and do work today, and replacing this with a fuzzy future, shifting problems:
see "...Maybe..." in it,
see Matt's post 'Truth in advertising' about his 5:18 in 2001 and 5:21 in 2002,
see Bill White's thread 'TI advice: stroke length vs rate',
and see my evaluation of my own rate and length, that I posted October 2.
Originally posted by MetroSwim
...
I had to initially work through two solid months of drilling just to overcome my old muscle memory, doing TI drills and VERY LITTLE swimming with my masters team.
...
One of the biggest issues I ran into was fighting my old habits. Muscle memory was my biggest opponent.
...
Here's another thing which I have a feeling you'll find shocking - I don't care about my times in the pool this year. I'm working on RADICAL changes to my technique.
...
Am I faster for having embraced TI? Maybe, But I'm certainly not slower.
...
And I enjoy it so much more now.
...
This TI description, to me, is like if I were a musician and being asked to play music that I don't want.
