Now that I've gone through the hassle of signing up as a member of this dicussion group, this gets more and more fun. Maybe I'll get fired from my job :)
Anyway... I'm sure that ALL Masters level swimmers have heard of Total Immersion (from now on referred to as TI) swimming, correct? What are everyone's opinions about TI swimming? I am most curious because as a coach of age group swimmers, I was looking for training videos for our kids. I happened upon TI and liked what I saw... at first.
Here's some background for my experience with TI... very well put together, most of what they teach has been in existence for some time anyway, and they certainly are good for teaching novice/beginner swimmers the basic technique for swimming.
However, when looking to swim fast, and I mean fast, not lap swim quality, but truly competitively, I thing TI has missed to boat completely. Yes, smooth and efficient swimming is nice, but did anyone see the NCAA's? There are 20 year old men swimming 9 strokes per length in breaststroke! We have a number of age group coaches in my area teaching their kids how to swim breaststroke at 6 or 7 strokes a length!!! What gives? Extended glide is one thing, but when you slow down your stroke to such an extent just to achieve long and fluid strokes you sacrifice speed tremendously.
Hey, if you can swim 9 strokes a length at 1 second per stroke that is WAY better than 6 strokes a length at 2 seconds per stroke. Simple math.
Anthony Ervin of Cal swam the 100 free in the follwing SPL... 12 (start)/15/16/16. I could be off but that's what I was able to get from the (ahem- PALTRY) ESPN coverage. Now TI has goal SPL's of 12/13! Hello, if the BEST sprinter in history takes 8 cycles, shouldn't that tell us something? Turnover is very important. Same with streamlining, yes streamlines are nice and quite important but A.E. pops up after 5 yards MAX out of each turn. You only serve yourself well if your streamline is faster than you can swim, most age group swimmers would be well-served to explode out of the turn and swim within 3-4 yards.
Alas, it's been a slow day finishing my work for the week. Just looking to start a nice discussion. It's been my experience that a lot of Masters level swimmers are also engaged in coaching age group swimming at some level, and therefore I feel we can get some good dialogue going on this issue.
Now I've just used TI as an example because that's what I've had my experience with, but more general is what keys do you all stress when trying to mold competitive swimmers?
Au revoir,
-Rain Man
Parents
Former Member
Every single time Ion (fast ION) posts a reply, I, along with 99% of others have to roll our eyes and bite our lips. Why? Because of the numerous quotes that are taken out of place and are meaningless.
For instance the quote on Ervins' breakout, Here is the actual quote "and he carried less starting velocity into the swim portion of the race. Anthony broke the surface in 2.39 seconds, behind Gary and several others in the race."
What part of BEHIND do you not understand ION? I say again, Anthony Ervin and Gary Hall are BAD examples to follow for most of their races.
Let’s first discuss the start:
“Both Ervin and Hall used a track start, with their heads down and forward on the blocks and the right leg forward (only one other finalist used a track start).” The track start WILL be displaced eventually; it produces lower velocity and is as much as .5 seconds slower when measured to the 15 meters mark. What the USA Swimming site left out conveniently was the start and the 15-meter splits of the entire field. Because of their track starts and poor technique they were behind the field.
“At 25 meters, Popov had taken a slight lead over Hall and van den Hoogenband, while Ervin hit the mark in sixth place, still trying to make up ground from the start.”
If Hall and Ervin had used a two-footed grab start, done three small dolphins after the entry; they just might have been first to the 15-meter mark, rather than so far behind.
“There is no other race in swimming where the start and the finish are as important as the swimming portion itself. A race can be won or lost in these crucial phases of the 50.” They got this right, but all swim races can be won or lost with the start and finish.
“This is race is a remarkable example of how finishing technique can reverse the results of 45 meters of swimming.” “As their hands came forward, Gary seems to have a slight advantage, but his head comes up slightly, just inches before his hand touches the wall. This action pulls his hand back slightly, while Anthony keeps his ear glued to his shoulder, taking the most direct line to the wall. Both touch with their fingertips even with their bodyline.”
Gary Hall threw away Gold medals in 1996 with his poor finishes. He did not learn much in the 4 years; he could have won the Gold outright if he had finished properly.
This is to illustrate how ION takes information and miss uses it. Knowledge is power, and unfortunately this forum gives Ion a forum for his lack of knowledge. Some people out there may just believe Ion has some good points. That is too bad because Masters swimming has some great coaches who would love to help “Fast Ion” get better. I know the coaches in San Diego, and they could help greatly. But there has to be a distinction, one has to be the coach, one has to be the swimmer being coached. When the swimmer KNOWS more than the coach DOES they will never get better.
There I said what many are thinking. Sorry Ion, you are probably a nice guy. But you don't listen you only come back with more quotes, time after time. Here is a wild suggestion, take a TI class and listen, see if you get better. There are world class coaches nearby who are certified TI instructors. All they will ask of you is to listen and try. What do you have to loose?
Coach Wayne McCauley
Always learning and listening
:rolleyes:
Every single time Ion (fast ION) posts a reply, I, along with 99% of others have to roll our eyes and bite our lips. Why? Because of the numerous quotes that are taken out of place and are meaningless.
For instance the quote on Ervins' breakout, Here is the actual quote "and he carried less starting velocity into the swim portion of the race. Anthony broke the surface in 2.39 seconds, behind Gary and several others in the race."
What part of BEHIND do you not understand ION? I say again, Anthony Ervin and Gary Hall are BAD examples to follow for most of their races.
Let’s first discuss the start:
“Both Ervin and Hall used a track start, with their heads down and forward on the blocks and the right leg forward (only one other finalist used a track start).” The track start WILL be displaced eventually; it produces lower velocity and is as much as .5 seconds slower when measured to the 15 meters mark. What the USA Swimming site left out conveniently was the start and the 15-meter splits of the entire field. Because of their track starts and poor technique they were behind the field.
“At 25 meters, Popov had taken a slight lead over Hall and van den Hoogenband, while Ervin hit the mark in sixth place, still trying to make up ground from the start.”
If Hall and Ervin had used a two-footed grab start, done three small dolphins after the entry; they just might have been first to the 15-meter mark, rather than so far behind.
“There is no other race in swimming where the start and the finish are as important as the swimming portion itself. A race can be won or lost in these crucial phases of the 50.” They got this right, but all swim races can be won or lost with the start and finish.
“This is race is a remarkable example of how finishing technique can reverse the results of 45 meters of swimming.” “As their hands came forward, Gary seems to have a slight advantage, but his head comes up slightly, just inches before his hand touches the wall. This action pulls his hand back slightly, while Anthony keeps his ear glued to his shoulder, taking the most direct line to the wall. Both touch with their fingertips even with their bodyline.”
Gary Hall threw away Gold medals in 1996 with his poor finishes. He did not learn much in the 4 years; he could have won the Gold outright if he had finished properly.
This is to illustrate how ION takes information and miss uses it. Knowledge is power, and unfortunately this forum gives Ion a forum for his lack of knowledge. Some people out there may just believe Ion has some good points. That is too bad because Masters swimming has some great coaches who would love to help “Fast Ion” get better. I know the coaches in San Diego, and they could help greatly. But there has to be a distinction, one has to be the coach, one has to be the swimmer being coached. When the swimmer KNOWS more than the coach DOES they will never get better.
There I said what many are thinking. Sorry Ion, you are probably a nice guy. But you don't listen you only come back with more quotes, time after time. Here is a wild suggestion, take a TI class and listen, see if you get better. There are world class coaches nearby who are certified TI instructors. All they will ask of you is to listen and try. What do you have to loose?
Coach Wayne McCauley
Always learning and listening
:rolleyes:
