Now that I've gone through the hassle of signing up as a member of this dicussion group, this gets more and more fun. Maybe I'll get fired from my job :)
Anyway... I'm sure that ALL Masters level swimmers have heard of Total Immersion (from now on referred to as TI) swimming, correct? What are everyone's opinions about TI swimming? I am most curious because as a coach of age group swimmers, I was looking for training videos for our kids. I happened upon TI and liked what I saw... at first.
Here's some background for my experience with TI... very well put together, most of what they teach has been in existence for some time anyway, and they certainly are good for teaching novice/beginner swimmers the basic technique for swimming.
However, when looking to swim fast, and I mean fast, not lap swim quality, but truly competitively, I thing TI has missed to boat completely. Yes, smooth and efficient swimming is nice, but did anyone see the NCAA's? There are 20 year old men swimming 9 strokes per length in breaststroke! We have a number of age group coaches in my area teaching their kids how to swim breaststroke at 6 or 7 strokes a length!!! What gives? Extended glide is one thing, but when you slow down your stroke to such an extent just to achieve long and fluid strokes you sacrifice speed tremendously.
Hey, if you can swim 9 strokes a length at 1 second per stroke that is WAY better than 6 strokes a length at 2 seconds per stroke. Simple math.
Anthony Ervin of Cal swam the 100 free in the follwing SPL... 12 (start)/15/16/16. I could be off but that's what I was able to get from the (ahem- PALTRY) ESPN coverage. Now TI has goal SPL's of 12/13! Hello, if the BEST sprinter in history takes 8 cycles, shouldn't that tell us something? Turnover is very important. Same with streamlining, yes streamlines are nice and quite important but A.E. pops up after 5 yards MAX out of each turn. You only serve yourself well if your streamline is faster than you can swim, most age group swimmers would be well-served to explode out of the turn and swim within 3-4 yards.
Alas, it's been a slow day finishing my work for the week. Just looking to start a nice discussion. It's been my experience that a lot of Masters level swimmers are also engaged in coaching age group swimming at some level, and therefore I feel we can get some good dialogue going on this issue.
Now I've just used TI as an example because that's what I've had my experience with, but more general is what keys do you all stress when trying to mold competitive swimmers?
Au revoir,
-Rain Man
Parents
Former Member
Rain Man,
I try NOT to be authoritative, and never say my way is the only way. I will be the first to say there are many ways of doing the strokes. I specialize in teaching breaststroke, there are over 50 ways or styles that all work. It is the only stroke that five feet tall swimmers can compete and beat six foot six inch swimmers.
The problem remains that hearsay descriptions of front quadrant swimming are not what are actually happening.
Going back to your initial post, Anthony Ervin is a very bad example of many things coaches are trying to improve in the swimming world. He has a poor start, poor streamline and poor breakout. But he is shown once he starts actual freestyle that he is the fastest swimmer in the world. At the fifteen-meter mark he is often 0.3 to 0.5 seconds slower than others are. Just think how fast the 50 and 100-meter records would be if he could be the fastest to the 15-meter mark.
In breaststroke Ed Moses is often 0.5 to 0.7 seconds faster to the 15 meter mark, and he gains 0.5 to 1.0 seconds from 5 meters into and 5 meters out of each turn. That is why when his stroke is working for him he blows everyone else out of the pool. This year he had a 2:03 200 meters short course breaststroke, over 4 seconds faster than anyone else does.
ASCA Level 5 means I have taken the time to take all the American Swim Coaches Association courses, have served the swimming community for years, coached for years producing top level swimmers, and have produced articles for publication both in local newsletters, and all major swim publications. It also means I will always be learning, they do not allow you to sit on your laurels, you continuously have to produce. Again I am always going to clinics, both local and to the ASCA World Clinic. All coaches learn from both swimmers and other coaches. I also try to learn from other sports such as cycling and running.
As to the swimmers shoulder issues, many studies have shown that master’s swimmers actually have lower incidence of problems compared to age group swimmers. This is despite our age, our coaches like to think it is because we are more aware of it and teach better technique, rather than just yardage. Let me tell you that masters has some of the best coaches in all of swimming. Yes there are lots of swimmer coached programs, but we certainly have access to many Masters articles and clinics to improve technique and reduce swimmers shoulder problems.
Addressing the front quadrant dilemma that you can’t see in the tapes, just look for swimmers from Stanford and UCLA, they both have their swimmers doing front quadrant swimming in free and butterfly.
Coach Wayne McCauley
ASCA Certified Level 5:D
Rain Man,
I try NOT to be authoritative, and never say my way is the only way. I will be the first to say there are many ways of doing the strokes. I specialize in teaching breaststroke, there are over 50 ways or styles that all work. It is the only stroke that five feet tall swimmers can compete and beat six foot six inch swimmers.
The problem remains that hearsay descriptions of front quadrant swimming are not what are actually happening.
Going back to your initial post, Anthony Ervin is a very bad example of many things coaches are trying to improve in the swimming world. He has a poor start, poor streamline and poor breakout. But he is shown once he starts actual freestyle that he is the fastest swimmer in the world. At the fifteen-meter mark he is often 0.3 to 0.5 seconds slower than others are. Just think how fast the 50 and 100-meter records would be if he could be the fastest to the 15-meter mark.
In breaststroke Ed Moses is often 0.5 to 0.7 seconds faster to the 15 meter mark, and he gains 0.5 to 1.0 seconds from 5 meters into and 5 meters out of each turn. That is why when his stroke is working for him he blows everyone else out of the pool. This year he had a 2:03 200 meters short course breaststroke, over 4 seconds faster than anyone else does.
ASCA Level 5 means I have taken the time to take all the American Swim Coaches Association courses, have served the swimming community for years, coached for years producing top level swimmers, and have produced articles for publication both in local newsletters, and all major swim publications. It also means I will always be learning, they do not allow you to sit on your laurels, you continuously have to produce. Again I am always going to clinics, both local and to the ASCA World Clinic. All coaches learn from both swimmers and other coaches. I also try to learn from other sports such as cycling and running.
As to the swimmers shoulder issues, many studies have shown that master’s swimmers actually have lower incidence of problems compared to age group swimmers. This is despite our age, our coaches like to think it is because we are more aware of it and teach better technique, rather than just yardage. Let me tell you that masters has some of the best coaches in all of swimming. Yes there are lots of swimmer coached programs, but we certainly have access to many Masters articles and clinics to improve technique and reduce swimmers shoulder problems.
Addressing the front quadrant dilemma that you can’t see in the tapes, just look for swimmers from Stanford and UCLA, they both have their swimmers doing front quadrant swimming in free and butterfly.
Coach Wayne McCauley
ASCA Certified Level 5:D
