Now that I've gone through the hassle of signing up as a member of this dicussion group, this gets more and more fun. Maybe I'll get fired from my job :)
Anyway... I'm sure that ALL Masters level swimmers have heard of Total Immersion (from now on referred to as TI) swimming, correct? What are everyone's opinions about TI swimming? I am most curious because as a coach of age group swimmers, I was looking for training videos for our kids. I happened upon TI and liked what I saw... at first.
Here's some background for my experience with TI... very well put together, most of what they teach has been in existence for some time anyway, and they certainly are good for teaching novice/beginner swimmers the basic technique for swimming.
However, when looking to swim fast, and I mean fast, not lap swim quality, but truly competitively, I thing TI has missed to boat completely. Yes, smooth and efficient swimming is nice, but did anyone see the NCAA's? There are 20 year old men swimming 9 strokes per length in breaststroke! We have a number of age group coaches in my area teaching their kids how to swim breaststroke at 6 or 7 strokes a length!!! What gives? Extended glide is one thing, but when you slow down your stroke to such an extent just to achieve long and fluid strokes you sacrifice speed tremendously.
Hey, if you can swim 9 strokes a length at 1 second per stroke that is WAY better than 6 strokes a length at 2 seconds per stroke. Simple math.
Anthony Ervin of Cal swam the 100 free in the follwing SPL... 12 (start)/15/16/16. I could be off but that's what I was able to get from the (ahem- PALTRY) ESPN coverage. Now TI has goal SPL's of 12/13! Hello, if the BEST sprinter in history takes 8 cycles, shouldn't that tell us something? Turnover is very important. Same with streamlining, yes streamlines are nice and quite important but A.E. pops up after 5 yards MAX out of each turn. You only serve yourself well if your streamline is faster than you can swim, most age group swimmers would be well-served to explode out of the turn and swim within 3-4 yards.
Alas, it's been a slow day finishing my work for the week. Just looking to start a nice discussion. It's been my experience that a lot of Masters level swimmers are also engaged in coaching age group swimming at some level, and therefore I feel we can get some good dialogue going on this issue.
Now I've just used TI as an example because that's what I've had my experience with, but more general is what keys do you all stress when trying to mold competitive swimmers?
Au revoir,
-Rain Man
Parents
Former Member
Cynthia, I notice that since you are training by yourself, posting in the USMS forum, means connecting with like-minded swimmers.
Originally posted by cinc310
Ion, I don't see any harm using a kickboard in breastroke. Its never made my kick worst.
...
For Mark Schubert, coach of Erik Vendt (US) who swam the 1,500 free in 14:59.11 in the year 2000, and 15:02.24 in the year 2002, the question "What approach do you use in teaching them to convert from a two-beat to a six-beat kick? Just plenty of work on the kickboard?" brings his answer:
"Yes. We do a lot of kicking.".
This emphasis to kicking is prevalent in US Swimming, as it is in world class swimming programs.
Originally posted by Bert Petersen
...
There are, of course, certain basic skills that all swimmers must possess. After that, stroke technique should be tailored to the individual.
...
In line with training individually, a coach declared about his methods:
"I may develop some good swimmers who become world champions, and you might develop some world champions out of swimmers I couldn't make work.",
"As they get older (i.e.: late teens) I am not going to worry too much about stroke technique because they are set in their styles. The main thing is to get in great shape. This also helps offset stroke faults which have become too ingrained to change.", and "We do make some slight changes, but we don't work a heck of a lot on stroke.".
For Richard Jochums, head coach of the US team at the 2002 Pan Pacific Games -the American coach I am being told that the Australian coaches fear the most as of 2002-, training technique means "In workout, we fix technique at race speed, not in drills. I don't believe in drills.", as he is quoted in the book 'Gold in the Water' by P.H. Mullen, in page 61.
Originally posted by cinc310
...
My weakness in *** has been more of the armpull.
...
This applies to me also, in freestyle though: I have a fast-twitch kick and a slow-twitch armpull.
In line with "This also helps offset stroke faults which have become too ingrained to change." and "...we fix technique at race speed..." which I quoted above, I am taking the path now of mainly managing to increase my arm turnover, while many other defects become lower prioritized:
two months ago, I was proceeding to make fumdamental stroke corrections, Phil's way (I mean Phil Arcuni), Paul's way (I mean Paul Smith), and a majority of swimmers' way which I have seen;
the arm was to enter the water bent, the arm was to stretch underwater, water-polo style except that the head was to be down;
it was to replace my ingrained style of swimming with arms already stretched in the air;
the result is a dismantled stroke, and a lack of fun in workouts that I enjoy doing at a certain power.
The coach from another program who said to me not to worry about where I put my arms but to worry about how fast I turn them, is the coach who made me switch programs after the 2002 USMS Long Course Nationals.
I will see...
Cynthia, I notice that since you are training by yourself, posting in the USMS forum, means connecting with like-minded swimmers.
Originally posted by cinc310
Ion, I don't see any harm using a kickboard in breastroke. Its never made my kick worst.
...
For Mark Schubert, coach of Erik Vendt (US) who swam the 1,500 free in 14:59.11 in the year 2000, and 15:02.24 in the year 2002, the question "What approach do you use in teaching them to convert from a two-beat to a six-beat kick? Just plenty of work on the kickboard?" brings his answer:
"Yes. We do a lot of kicking.".
This emphasis to kicking is prevalent in US Swimming, as it is in world class swimming programs.
Originally posted by Bert Petersen
...
There are, of course, certain basic skills that all swimmers must possess. After that, stroke technique should be tailored to the individual.
...
In line with training individually, a coach declared about his methods:
"I may develop some good swimmers who become world champions, and you might develop some world champions out of swimmers I couldn't make work.",
"As they get older (i.e.: late teens) I am not going to worry too much about stroke technique because they are set in their styles. The main thing is to get in great shape. This also helps offset stroke faults which have become too ingrained to change.", and "We do make some slight changes, but we don't work a heck of a lot on stroke.".
For Richard Jochums, head coach of the US team at the 2002 Pan Pacific Games -the American coach I am being told that the Australian coaches fear the most as of 2002-, training technique means "In workout, we fix technique at race speed, not in drills. I don't believe in drills.", as he is quoted in the book 'Gold in the Water' by P.H. Mullen, in page 61.
Originally posted by cinc310
...
My weakness in *** has been more of the armpull.
...
This applies to me also, in freestyle though: I have a fast-twitch kick and a slow-twitch armpull.
In line with "This also helps offset stroke faults which have become too ingrained to change." and "...we fix technique at race speed..." which I quoted above, I am taking the path now of mainly managing to increase my arm turnover, while many other defects become lower prioritized:
two months ago, I was proceeding to make fumdamental stroke corrections, Phil's way (I mean Phil Arcuni), Paul's way (I mean Paul Smith), and a majority of swimmers' way which I have seen;
the arm was to enter the water bent, the arm was to stretch underwater, water-polo style except that the head was to be down;
it was to replace my ingrained style of swimming with arms already stretched in the air;
the result is a dismantled stroke, and a lack of fun in workouts that I enjoy doing at a certain power.
The coach from another program who said to me not to worry about where I put my arms but to worry about how fast I turn them, is the coach who made me switch programs after the 2002 USMS Long Course Nationals.
I will see...
