Medical Question to a Doctor regarding Supplements.
Former Member
When competing last week in Hawaii, I read in the Honolulu Star Bulletin newspaper from Saturday May 18, in page A5, an advertisement promoting a product stimulating the release of the Human Growth Hormone by the body.
I read in it: "Practically EVERYONE over the age of 40 has a Growth Hormone deficiency.". I am age 43, and even though I trained more than ever for the past year, I swam slower in Hawaii in 100 free and 200 free than I did last year, which was slower than in 1998, which was slower than in 1996, which was slower than in 1994 when I peaked in yards competitions. Because of this, I kept reading:
by taking the product advertised in the newspaper "In the FIRST MONTH: You should expect: Improved stamina;...".
My question for a Medical Doctor familiar with competitions, regards one specific side effect of such a product, not approved by FDA. I remember reading in the Swimming World magazine in mid-90s, when Chinese Olympic swimmers were being caught on illegal products, that a possible side effect of Human Growth Hormone stimulants given to adults, was an increase of extremities like nose, hands, ears and forehead. A picture of the swimmer Massimiliano Rosolino (Ita.) who in the 2000SydneyOlympics won gold, silver and bronze medals, picture published in 2000 in www.nbcolympics.com, semmed to me to show the increase of the nose. www.nbcolympics.com didn't mean to imply anything like this, this is my interpretation of Rosolino's face. It is publicly documented now, that Rosolino took Human Growth Hormone stimulants before the Olympics.
My question is:
The product advertised in Honolulu Star Bulletin as being a Human Growth Hormone stimulant, does increase the nose?
If so, what safer supplements achieve "...improved stamina..."?
San Francisco Chronicle did mention once before the 2000Olympics, two Olympians who were achieving with legal supplements the outcome of illegal products.
Former Member
I don't think the discussion is complete, and that its ramifications into technique were exhausted without me trying technique improvements.
About ramifications into technique, Phil wrote:
Originally posted by Philip Arcuni
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I agree with Rain Man that TI does seem to teach a style that may not be perfect for everyone.
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Not to leave any stone unturned, I am taking one-on-one lessons on freestyle technique.
There are changes in technique that, when practiced enough time to gain efficiency, might or might not bring improvements in the range of fractions of a second per 100.
So it's 'fractions of a second per 100', no jump from my 2:09 to 1:45 in 200 yards free expected here, and these 'fractions of a second per 100' might not happen.
Same thing applies to anyone else, who is a late starter in swimming and couldn't jump from say 2:35 to my 2:09 in 200 free by doing one-on-one lessons on freestyle technique.
The bulk of improvement, however, is playing on the cardiovascular aerobic base, a feature that swimmers develop to their lifetime potential when training under the growing stage of their body.
See also the book 'Four Champions, One Gold Medal' by Chuck Warner describing this process.
This means that for a starter in the sport whose body is growing, there are more blood vessels developed that connect heart and swimming muscles, than for a later starter in the sport whose body is not growing when starting to train in swimming.
It leads to the earlier starter needing say 120 heart rate to swim a 25 in 12 seconds, and for the later starter needing say 170 heart rate to swim the 25 in 12 seconds, thus tiring quicker and getting less distance per stroke.
Developing this cardiovascular aerobic base is through training distance and healthy living.
Around the world, the age group swimmers absorb in one day about 2/3 of my weekly distance.
Nutrition in healthy living is the main subject of this thread when referring to supplements, but as an unknown I did rule to wait for FDA products approved as risk-free.
Technique like I wrote, might be for me in the range of 'fractions of a second per 100', if that.
Regarding Total Immerssion (TI), I asked somebody who is of the caliber of 46 seconds per 100 yards in free, and knows both me and a Masters program coached by a certifed TI instructor, whether it would improve my times, and he confirmed that compared to how I train, it's a 'marketing ploy'.
In conclusion so far, I will expect 'fractions of a second per 100' improvement, if that, by training distance and doing drills in the coached program I am in now, and by doing one-on-one lessons for stroke correction.
Drugs have bad side effects. 20/20 did a special program on the East German swim team in 1976. As adults these women have health problems to their liver and the ones that had children had kids with clubbed feet. As for over the counter drugs that have not been banned its up to you.
Ion are you talking about 2:13 yards or meters. You still beat me even when I was younger. The last time I swam 200 yard free on a relay I think the spilit was 2:17. But I did 200 yard butterfly at 2:29 when I was 18 years olds at the same meet. I'm sure that my 200 free yard currently would be around the time I clock it a 13 years old in the 2:50's. Ion there are three other strokes and not all of us are freestylers. As a kid I swam a 50 yard or meter butterfly close to my freestyle time. Think of this I made too senior qualfying times in the 100 yard breastroke and 200 meter butterfly for women back in the 1970's. My freestyle bordered B and A age group times. So not all of us are freestylers.
Originally posted by cinc310
Ion are you talking about 2:13 yards or meters.
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Cynthia,
in Hawaii it was 2:13 for 200 yards free.
Compared to my lifetime best of 2:09 (no scary to any Olympian, but I am a late starter in the sport) in 1994, I think that now at age 43, my maximum heart rate might have gotten a bit lower.
"Your maximal heart rate tends to decrease as you age.", states Swim Magazine from July/Aug 2002, in page 14.
Thank you for taking an interest in these adventures.
Originally posted by cinc310
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Maybe, you should try 7,000 yard workouts if you have time. But our bodies come to a point where we slow down.
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My body doesn't absorb more than a weekly mileage of 26 kilometers, or 28,600 yards, for 46 weeks into this season so far, and it already produces deteriorated swims.
My focus right now is to do this distance with more quality, by having better recovery day after day.
The age group swimmers do more than 2/3 of my weekly distance in one day, and with better quality.
I understand that it would be difficult to do 7,000 yards for 5 days a week. I could probably do it again but I would have to quite work so my body could adjust and have the time for that much yardage. They are right that you should try to find a method to improve your sytle. Also, maybe trying even your worst stroke in a race would be fun to improve. Its up to you. Like I said these days you could kick my butt in freestyle. But maybe I could give you a race in breastroke.
I do agree with you Ion that mileage has something to do with it. Maybe, you should try 7,000 yard workouts if you have time. But our bodies come to a point where we slow down. And maybe you should try other strokes and try to improve on them.
Originally posted by cinc310
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They are right that you should try to find a method to improve your sytle.
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Like I wrote, style change is underway now, but not with phenomenal time drops expected:
swimming freestyle is almost all in cardiovascular, from sprints to distance.
Originally posted by cinc310
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But maybe I could give you a race in breastroke.
You would beat me in breastroke.
Mostly, I stay away from breastroke, because it's slow and too technical for me to learn.
Every week I do a small quota of fly and back, but don't compete in them.
