Salt water conversion made me sick?

Orca, I swim in a saline pool, and the pool maintenance company dumps the salt directly into the pool. They said there was no need to be out of the pool when salt is added-- only when chemicals are added to the pool. Salt is organic, and if the salt added to the pool is JUST salt, it should cause no health issue. I have been in our pool when salt was added, and it caused no problems for me at all. It just tasted extra salty! Elaine, how much salt was added? they added 15 huge bags within 15 minutes while we were swimming.

Hi Dan, I've had this "mucus producing illness" 3x since January. I take care of a toddler who started day care and he's been sick more than healthy, so I'm sure that's part of the source of my illnesses. I swam for a year in a salt water pool and never had any problems, but it was already converted. My concern (and other swimmers there as well) was the dumping of a total of 15 bags of salt (not sure if there are any other "ingredients" in the salt mixture) into the pool while we were swimming within 15 minutes.

Salt is organic, .... Salt (i.e., table salt) is an inorganic ionic compound and when it is not dissolved in a liquid it is crystalline mineral composed of (NaCl or sodium chloride). Note there is the element Cl chlorine in table salt. In chemistry there are many substances referred to as "salts." These salts are any ionic compound formed from the neutralization of and acid and base such that the product is a neutral combination of positive ions (cations) and negative ions (anions). Usually salts are a combination of a metal anion and non-metal cation. There are actually lots of different salts - for instance magnesium iodide, aluminum sulfate, ferric chloride, calcium carbonate, etc. In salt sodium is a cation with a +1 charge and Cl is an anion with -1 charge Together they share an electron and form an ionic bond as the compound NaCl. "Salt water chlorination is a process that uses dissolved salt (2,500–6,000 ppm) as a store for the chlorination system. The chlorine generator (also known as salt cell, salt generator, salt chlorinator or SWG) uses electrolysis in the presence of dissolved salt (NaCl) to produce hypochlorous acid (HClO) and sodium hypochlorite (NaClO), which are the sanitizing agents already commonly used in swimming pools. As such, a saltwater pool is not actually chlorine-free; it simply utilizes a chlorine generator instead of direct addition of chlorine." (wiki) "The presence of chlorine in traditional swimming pools can be described as a combination of free available chlorine (FAC) and combined available chlorine (CAC). While FAC is composed of the free chlorine that is available for sanitizing the water, the CAC includes chloramines, which are formed by the reaction of FAC with amines (introduced into the pool by human perspiration and urine). Chloramines are responsible for the "chlorine smell" of pools, as well as skin and eye irritation. These problems are the result of insufficient levels of free available chlorine, and indicate a pool that must be "shocked" by the addition of 5-10 times the normal amount of chlorine. In saltwater pools, however, the generator continuously produces free chlorine, eliminating the formation of CAC. Electrolysis burns off chloramines in the same manner as traditional shock (oxidizer). As with traditionally chlorinated pools, saltwater pools must be monitored in order to maintain proper water chemistry. Low chlorine levels can be caused by insufficient salt, higher-than-normal chlorine demand, low stabilizer, sun exposure, or mechanical issues with the generator. Salt count can be lowered due to splash-out, backwashing, and dilution via rainwater." The Ocean contains many times the amount of salt (10x) that would be added to a pool for disinfection and it does not burn your nose or cause it to run except sometimes for a short period of time while your sinuses drain after getting out. Its possible that the pool company added sun stabilizers (cyanuric acid in outdoor pools) or that the partial reactions when the salt was added burned your sinuses and made them run, especially if they were shocking the pool. Its also possible that they added HCl hydrochloric acid to "neutralize the alkalinity and convert sodium hydroxide back to sodium chloride." Its also possible that they are using sodium bromide (a salt) instead of sodium chloride, which requires use of a shock. I've had my sinuses burned in chlorinated pools and it does cause a runny nose for hours/days thereafter. To learn more about salt water chlorination in general try this wiki site: en.wikipedia.org/.../Salt_water_chlorination. In all instances chlorine is being used to oxidize the cell walls of pathogens and kill them. The only stronger oxidant is ozone, but it "eats" metal and does not produce a residual in water to keep killing, if there is no ozone present.

Salt is organic,... Unambiguously untrue. ...and if the salt added to the pool is JUST salt, it should cause no health issue. Whether one uses the chemical or colloquial definition of "organic" there are numerous "organic" substances that have very significant health consequences. Poison ivy and fugu fish come to mind immediately. The first causes rash, the second can be lethal. ...and as long as we are setting the record straight, typically the antimicrobial chemicals that are added to swimming pools are not the cause of sinus trouble or allergic reactions, it is the products of the chemical reaction of these chemicals with various fluids left behind by humans such as sweat, saliva and urine.

Salt (i.e., table salt) is an inorganic ionic compound :doh:I stand corrected.

Maybe dumping in bags of anything should be done after swimmers/people are not watching - just saying human nature being what it is, might cause a thought that this is not how it is to be done.

Considering salt is sometimes used as a nasal decongestant (i.e., saline nasal spray) it certainly seems like dumping a massive amount of salt into a pool could induce your nose to run, but I certainly wouldn't expect it to actually make you sick.

The only draw back is that a salt water pool can't be used for competition according to the rule books.Which rule books are you referring to? It isn’t the USMS or USA Swimming rule books.

:doh:I stand corrected. Elaine, your are sentenced, like in the movie "Ground Hog Day" - to take chemistry 101 until you get this right! Although, I'm thinking (like waterboarding) this might be considered torture. :) By definition organic chemicals are compounds that contain significant Carbon (C) and often contain hydrogen (H) and other atoms too. Some (perhaps most) definitions for "organic" chemicals require the presence of C-H bonds. For instance, most chemists would consider Carbon Dioxide, carbon metallic alloys, carbon-fluorine (Teflon) to be inorganic chemicals, because there is no C-H bonding in them. Being sentenced to repeat "organic chemistry" 101, which generally scares even the chemistry majors and is clearly torture. Organic chemicals are sometimes classified as Natural Organic Materials (NOMs) (plants, animals, etc.) and Synthetic Organic Chemicals (SOCs), which result from the reaction of C-H compounds with other chemicals, either on purpose to produce a chemical product or as a consequence (byproduct). Some Chlorinated SOCs are toxic and/or suspected carcinogens, if the dose and exposure are sufficiently high and long term. As Karl pointed out some NOMs are toxic and carcinogens too. In a pool the free chlorine used for disinfection (oxidizing the cell walls of pathogenic organisms and killing them) is also available for combination with other organic chemicals that we carry or otherwise add to the pool (from skin/hair oils, urine, perfumes, etc.). Note that chlorine is added to our drinking water too, and drinking water from surface waters contains NOMs (from plant decay and/or from SOCs in treated wastewater), which then allow for a combination of organic compounds with the added chlorine. There are chlorinated organic compounds formed by the combination of chlorine and organic compounds in drinking/pool water that are suspected carcinogens: trihalomethanes (THMs) are of primary concern. The exposure to these compounds in a pool is generally low, because we don't chronically ingest pool water. It does contact our skin (unless you are really fast), so showering after swimming to remove chloramines, THMs etc. would seem to be a good idea. The chlorination process in salt water pools produces less of these types of chlorinated organic compounds of concern. It also produces less chloramine (nitrogen and chlorine combined organic compounds) too. It's the chloramines that cause the eye irritation and the chlorine smell we've all come to love.

Elaine, your are sentenced, like in the movie "Ground Hog Day" - to take chemistry 101 until you get this right! Although, I'm thinking (like waterboarding) this might be considered torture. :) :afraid:Although I took chemistry in high school and earned a A, I hated it and promptly forgot everything I learned. Needless to say, I avoided taking chemistry classes in college!