Question to throw to the group out of curiosity -- What do people think about reasonable seed times for swim meets? Now, I know that people almost always enter masters meets with times that are best guesses, but what about entry times that are definitely not best guesses?
Hypothetical scenario: 400 IM and 50 free are back-to-back events at an end-of-season championship meet. Swimmer enters both events, with a time of 15:00.00 for the 400 IM, and 23.50 for the 50 free. For other events in the meet, the same swimmer is entered at 2:06 for the 200 IM, 2:10 for the 200 fly, etc. So _clearly_ this person is faster than 15:00 in the 400 IM. When asked, the swimmer says, honestly, that the seed time is bogus so that he has a longer rest before swimming the 50 free right afterwards. (The meet info for this hypothetical situation does _not_ allow for 'NT' entries.)
What do people think about this? I can't find any USMS rule that prohibits this, but it feels rather unfair to the other people in Heat 1 who actually do belong in Heat 1, and will have some fast person in an outside lane lap them a couple times. My personal feeling is that if the order of events doesn't work for you, then don't swim one of the events.
Thoughts?
-Rick
I recently participated in a meet where, due to circumstances, we threw out the entire pre-seeded meet plan. When it was time to start an event, everyone entered in the event (young/old/male/female/fast/slow) marshaled with the referee and just picked a lane. We had heats with mixed sexes, fast swimmers along the wall lanes, oldest and youngest next to each other, you name it! I didn’t hear one complaint about it…everyone seemed to think that it was pretty fun. Nobody thought that it was inconsiderate.
I'm sympathetic to Rick because I also run Masters meets. My point, though, is that seeding can’t and shouldn’t be legislated beyond what already exists in our rules.
I try my best to seed myself accurately even if it would be competitively disadvantageous to do so. I do that because many participants enjoy the meet experience better if my performance meets their expectations. (It also makes the meet run faster and smoother) However, I am not concerned about trying to meet someone else’s expectations. I do not care if I make other swimmers angry/happy because I swim faster/slower than my seed time. (Or, whether I'm going out too fast for you because I'm going for an intermediate time.) It is not something that you, I, or they should worry about.
Likewise, I’ve been in meets where we’ve had some swimmers in a heat swimming freestyle and others swimming IM or strokes. I’ve never seen anyone express a hint of anger or dismay about that.
That’s not to say that people don’t get upset when false seedings and similar things occur (as many speakers here have expressed). But there are also people out there who don’t care and/or believe that such actions do fall within the definition of “sportsmanship”. It’s a judgment item in the eyes of the beholder. Officially, it’s a judgment item in the eyes of the referee. It should stay that way.
One final sea story: I participated in a different meet, not too long ago, where I seeded myself much slower than I normally did. It was, however, an accurate seeding given that I was recovering from an injury. The mere fact of my presence in the early heats among much older swimmers, however, drew evil stares and comments. I was where I should be in order to make the meet run efficiently, but it still seemed to upset some participants. Think about that.
I recently participated in a meet where, due to circumstances, we threw out the entire pre-seeded meet plan. When it was time to start an event, everyone entered in the event (young/old/male/female/fast/slow) marshaled with the referee and just picked a lane. We had heats with mixed sexes, fast swimmers along the wall lanes, oldest and youngest next to each other, you name it! I didn’t hear one complaint about it…everyone seemed to think that it was pretty fun. Nobody thought that it was inconsiderate.
I'm sympathetic to Rick because I also run Masters meets. My point, though, is that seeding can’t and shouldn’t be legislated beyond what already exists in our rules.
I try my best to seed myself accurately even if it would be competitively disadvantageous to do so. I do that because many participants enjoy the meet experience better if my performance meets their expectations. (It also makes the meet run faster and smoother) However, I am not concerned about trying to meet someone else’s expectations. I do not care if I make other swimmers angry/happy because I swim faster/slower than my seed time. (Or, whether I'm going out too fast for you because I'm going for an intermediate time.) It is not something that you, I, or they should worry about.
Likewise, I’ve been in meets where we’ve had some swimmers in a heat swimming freestyle and others swimming IM or strokes. I’ve never seen anyone express a hint of anger or dismay about that.
That’s not to say that people don’t get upset when false seedings and similar things occur (as many speakers here have expressed). But there are also people out there who don’t care and/or believe that such actions do fall within the definition of “sportsmanship”. It’s a judgment item in the eyes of the beholder. Officially, it’s a judgment item in the eyes of the referee. It should stay that way.
One final sea story: I participated in a different meet, not too long ago, where I seeded myself much slower than I normally did. It was, however, an accurate seeding given that I was recovering from an injury. The mere fact of my presence in the early heats among much older swimmers, however, drew evil stares and comments. I was where I should be in order to make the meet run efficiently, but it still seemed to upset some participants. Think about that.
